is there a irregular or non regular force out.

[bmakj]

LL AS district game, 2 umpires.

2 outs, bases loaded, blooper to shallow right center, drops, CF is within a couple of steps, throws to second. BR who was on first had brain fart, waited to see ball drop before taking off, is thrown out at second by CF.

HPU points at plate to indicate to scorekeeper that the run scores, everyone yells 3rd out, force out, he says "that was not a regular force out, the run scores"

is there a rule like that anywhere except MSU rule book? didnt really affect outcome, defensive team was spanked, but curious.

also, next game (double elimination), pitch bounces and hits batters foot, he calls ball, we all look at him like WTH? We understand in regular season (where we have some rule mods anyway), if it is pretty slow roller or bouncer, 1B is not awarded, but this is AS.

Same game, overthrow to 1B goes under gate to batting cage that is the fence along 1B line in right field. runner from 1B was two steps from 3B when HPU calls dead ball, she stops at 3B, they leave her at 3B. since she was so close (and coach was sending her), should she have scored?

 

[bmakj]

no insights from anybody on these?

 

[Momo'sDad]

no insights from anybody on these?

From what I read, you're talking about local rules being applied in each of the cases you mentioned.

1) It's a force, so the run does not count. There is no rationale to reward the offensive team because R3 made a baserunning error.
2) Dead ball - disposition depends what the umpire saw and what rule set
3) Sounds like R1 should've been awarded home because the ball went out of play, but the umpire may have seen the timing differently. Does time of the throw or time ball actually goes out make the determination of the award?

You may get a few more answers here, but local rules exist for a reason - i.e. the people who make them up are convinced they're the smartest people ever - and do not really provide much common ground for substantive discussion on an international forum.

 

[bmakj]

when I say local rules, that was for regular season, and would be an agreement between two HCs and blue in pregame (ie "we have not been awarding 1B on a rolling pitch that hits the foot, you OK with that" etc.)

 

[Sweet Lou]

I think I mostly agree with momo's
#1 force out - run does not score.
#2 dead ball - I think most rule sets it is HBP batter awarded 1st but some sets the ump can rule ball if no attempt to avoid is made by batter. Dead ball either way.
#3 if she started on 1st and it was in infield ground ball thrown out of play she would be awarded 3rd base and stopped there is my understanding under most ground rules and rule sets so it sounds like the correct ruling was made.

 

[mmeece]

Ditto on 1 and 2 if I understand the set-up correctly.
#3. Depends on the timing of the throw (I think). If the runner had not achieved 2nd base before the throw was made then the ruling was correct.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

From what I read, you're talking about local rules being applied in each of the cases you mentioned.

1) It's a force, so the run does not count. There is no rationale to reward the offensive team because R3 made a baserunning error.
2) Dead ball - disposition depends what the umpire saw and what rule set
3) Sounds like R1 should've been awarded home because the ball went out of play, but the umpire may have seen the timing differently. Does time of the throw or time ball actually goes out make the determination of the award?

You may get a few more answers here, but local rules exist for a reason - i.e. the people who make them up are convinced they're the smartest people ever - and do not really provide much common ground for substantive discussion on an international forum.

re: 3) Almost every code awards two bases from the time of the throw. The OP describes a throw to 1st base that rolls "under gate to batting cage that is the fence along 1B line in right field [sic]." That could take some time. Little League rules are derived from OBR, hence, there is a provision to award two bases from the time of the pitch if the wild throw is the first play by an infielder.

re: 2) Little League requires the batter make an attempt to avoid the pitch.

 

[testandor]

#3. Depends on the timing of the throw (I think). If the runner had not achieved 2nd base before the throw was made then the ruling was correct

You are right.

#3) Possibly with some local rec league rules. Who knows what THEY make up as they go along?

I know of no organization whose rules would award Home to a runner on 1B on an overthrow that went out of play on the 1B line, when that runner had not yet reached 2B at the time of the throw. I don't care if that throw was from the Infield, or if the LF'er uncorked a cannon shot over the fence.

And I doubt any of you coaches can ever remember a real game where that happened to you and you didn't go berserk or protest.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Sounds like an irregular umpire ... then again, I think you have to be irregular to get into this in the first place.

 

[The Man In Blue]

no insights from anybody on these?

Slow your jets man! Some of us work for a living!