IR..Bout to pull my hair out

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Jul 3, 2018
35
8
Rosey, I think I understand what you’re saying, but she knows she’s doing it, thinks about it, and watches the videos with me. Like I said, even doing the 9:00 drill she closes too soon, and her glove hand is straight at me and comes straight down, so I definitely see what you’re saying, but even after watching the videos and being aware of what she needs to do even with the 9:00 drill, she can’t seem prevent herself from closing early, and we don’t know how to fix it.

Ken B, I see the stills you posted, what are your thoughts, and what are you seeing?
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
You won't fix it in one day. You both need to understand it's a journey. Like you said, dial it down a bit, have fun with it. It'll come.

You've seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utKZVDh-rDI

I recognize these drills aren't exactly about the shoulders, but notice the shoulder position in all of them. So in doing these drills, you're reinforce IR *and* also start creating position/muscle memory for the shoulders.
 
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sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
Your DD is actually slapping the outside and back of her left leg with her glove. I've never seen this before, but it is wrong. I'm not sure where she picked this up...perhaps watching some men's slow pitch. She is contorting her body into an S shape during the pitch.

DD needs to work on bringing the glove down to the inside of her left thigh. The good thing about having her focus on slapping (gently) the inside of her left thigh is that it is something that *she* can feel.

Attached is a shot of your DD. The other pitchers are two of the best ever, Monica Abbott and Cat Osterman.


If the shoulder is pointed in more (torso keeps still) and you can have the same pattern movement with the glove as you have now.

I'm confused by your post. She should clearly *NOT* be hitting the outside of her left leg with the glove.
 

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Aug 12, 2014
112
28
Buffalo, NY
My point was that if the shoulder points in the glove arm will swirl straighter and not around the back of thigh. We want to correct the same thing I just think that the focus should be on the shoulder and that will put the glove path more towards the catcher rather than to the side/back of her.

Add: Even if you think the glove is swirling too much you can't fix the glove before you fix the shoulder.
 
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Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
Seminole,

2 minor thoughts (I don't really want to call them suggestions, as I'm in the same beginner boat as you):

1. Catching tip - hard to tell, but it looks like your holding the glove sideways (your thumb down). Looks like it's a sturdy glove, but that thumb down position makes it a lot easier to jam a thumb. I've done it so many times in baseball - mostly on movement pitches. With a 12" softball, I'd imagine the extra ball mass would just amplify the pain for me. Goal is to keep your hand upright ("V") as much as possible. Not always possible, of course, on low pitches, especially while on a bucket. Hopefully it's never an issue for you - but thought I'd mention it since it looks like you have several years of bucket time ahead of you!

2. Overcorrect the glove swim - have you tried having her exaggerate the shoulder turn or glove swim in the opposite direction? Like having her swing her glove hand toward the 3B on-deck circle, and see if the shoulder follows? May also help with bringing her glove down on the inside (vs. outside) of the thigh per Sluggers post.

Best of luck. And I can 100% relate to the frustration of knowing what should be happening, but not knowing how to teach it!
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
I don't see the glove swim as the problem. If the shoulder is pointed in more (torso keeps still) and you can have the same pattern movement with the glove as you have now. You can keep the glove in but that doesn't mean it will fix the shoulder/torso movement. In teaching I found the girls can feel/fix the shoulder more so than the glove as well.

how about phrasing it a little differently? neither the swim or shoulder are the problems, they are telltale signs of the problem, which is a overzealous horizontal rotation of the shoulders. I'm guessing she's trying to put some extra zip on the ball and isn't trusting her whip. note the forward lean. she needs to relax, get at 45 and stay there and just pitch the ball. both hands facing the catcher, freeze the shoulders, and throw with adduction. 2 cents and a smile.
 
Jul 3, 2018
35
8
Uncdrew, yes we’ve both watched that YouTube video several times. She know what she needs to be doing but for some reason can’t perform it yet.

Gags, thanks for the suggestions, don’t wanna get jammed up for sure.

Sluggers, I’ll try wording it like you said by trying to hit the inside of her thigh because yesterday, I was just telling her over and over to throw her glove straight at me.

Cvssoftball, thanks for the tips, and it does sound easy saying it but how do I get her to stay at 45 and whip it because she’s not even staying at 45 during the 9:00 drill...should we start back at lock it in drill?

Doug..thanks for the praise about her good things...I try and reinforce as praise all that she’s doing a lot right each practice so she won’t bog down and merely focus on the problems.

So another question I have for all you guys is, by watching the videos, I’m seeing a whip, but it’s just not as loaded or has reached its full potential yet right? Which will come when she learns and gets her hips/torso to 45 at release.
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
I would take this in a different direction. Yes the glove swim is a problem in that it causes the shoulders to close early which limits full arm whip (IR). The glove swim and the shoulder issues are secondary symptoms of a more basic problem. The fact that your daughter is aware of the issues but is unable to affect them also points to this. When you throw overhand the shoulders are significant contributor, in the fastpitch motion they add very little. It is often very difficult to get pitchers to transition from feeling like they have to use the shoulders to feeling and trusting the armwhipping motion. The fact that your daughter 'walks through' all her pitches indicates that she has a right side dominant feel to her motion.

When I have a pitcher who walks through or over her landing leg I like to use 'jump backs'. They start with both hands at the belt and launch out just like they were throwing a pitch, land on flexed leg and then jump back toward the rubber. They should be upright and open when they land, if they can balance a little on the leg before jumping back that's even better. Then I have them do the same thing with the sling shot motion, land, throw the ball, and jump back. Then use their full motion, land, throw the ball and jump back. Verbally I tell them 'land, fire and fall back'. If they are going throw the ball and jump back they have to stay open with strong front side resistance.

In your OP you mentioned dragging and meeting at the knees, I saw in the older video that you posted that your daughter was doing this and it was keeping her in a better position at release.
 
Dec 10, 2015
845
63
Chautauqua County
ah, Seminole, I'm pretty sure I know exactly where you're coming from, having been there myself with my DD. So, please, let me offer a tip, find yourself a good PC. they see things we don't see and they know things we don't know. why? because they have already been where we are now and done it. chrispotts showed me the light and now java is teaching me how to turn on the light. notice I said "me". yes, they were both instructing my DD but only a fool wouldn't be right there listening in, taking notes, and then trying it out at home with their DDs. paraphrasing java, how about we work on removing things instead of adding things? so, instead of adding whip, how about we remove the problematic shoulder spin first? you may see that doing that also helps with the landing posture. which helps with the whip. ;)
 

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