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Internal rotation early? Spin trouble

Aug 21, 2008
869
28
Just one man's opinion here so take it at face value. But, it almost looks like she's FORCING the IR thing. I don't see much whip in her elbow. I would venture a strong guess that if you focused on that a bit more, you'll see the spin go the way you want. Your "IR" should still occur, but with more speed, spin and movement.

There's an old saying that a Hell's Angel with a paperclip can be deadly just like an average man with a handgun. It's about intent. And while the intent of IR is great, to keep people out of the Hello Elbow trap, it can still be dangerous if not done correctly.

Bill
 
Aug 17, 2019
35
8
Just one man's opinion here so take it at face value. But, it almost looks like she's FORCING the IR thing. I don't see much whip in her elbow. I would venture a strong guess that if you focused on that a bit more, you'll see the spin go the way you want. Your "IR" should still occur, but with more speed, spin and movement.

There's an old saying that a Hell's Angel with a paperclip can be deadly just like an average man with a handgun. It's about intent. And while the intent of IR is great, to keep people out of the Hello Elbow trap, it can still be dangerous if not done correctly.

Bill
My DD is new to IR. I’m curious as to what this girl is doing that is dangerous. I assume that to mean she is doing something that could cause injury. Could you expand on your comment? My DD and I are watching your videos and doing your drills. Because we don’t have an IR coach, I worry about injury trying to learn it ourselves.
 
Aug 21, 2008
869
28
My DD is new to IR. I’m curious as to what this girl is doing that is dangerous. I assume that to mean she is doing something that could cause injury. Could you expand on your comment? My DD and I are watching your videos and doing your drills. Because we don’t have an IR coach, I worry about injury trying to learn it ourselves.
BktMom3, I didn't mean this the way you read it. And let me be clear, I would never say someone is doing something dangerous then just leave it for a cliffhanger!!! I was talking about the dangers of people doing things even with the best intentions. A good intention doesn't mean something is done right, there can still be issues. So, in the spirit of full transparency: I personally didn't see anything "dangerous" in what she was doing. Nothing is 100% safe, she could land funny and break an ankle or hurt her back pitching on a hard surface or any one of 1,000 things. But, overall, I don't see anything mechanically that would cause an INJURY.

Having never seen your daughter pitch, it's unfair to make any suggestions or know what to say. And I very rarely talk about videos that are posted here. In this particular case, I saw something simple that I think will make a MAJOR difference in this young lady's pitching and save mom/dad a ton of frustration! But, I will say that if you're not doing "Hello Elbow" then you're probably doing things much safer than the majority. Call it "IR" if you want, I simply call it pitching. But without the Hello Elbow stuff, my guess is the "IR" things will happen pretty naturally. :):):).

Bill
 
Aug 17, 2019
35
8
BktMom3, I didn't mean this the way you read it. And let me be clear, I would never say someone is doing something dangerous then just leave it for a cliffhanger!!! I was talking about the dangers of people doing things even with the best intentions. A good intention doesn't mean something is done right, there can still be issues. So, in the spirit of full transparency: I personally didn't see anything "dangerous" in what she was doing. Nothing is 100% safe, she could land funny and break an ankle or hurt her back pitching on a hard surface or any one of 1,000 things. But, overall, I don't see anything mechanically that would cause an INJURY.

Having never seen your daughter pitch, it's unfair to make any suggestions or know what to say. And I very rarely talk about videos that are posted here. In this particular case, I saw something simple that I think will make a MAJOR difference in this young lady's pitching and save mom/dad a ton of frustration! But, I will say that if you're not doing "Hello Elbow" then you're probably doing things much safer than the majority. Call it "IR" if you want, I simply call it pitching. But without the Hello Elbow stuff, my guess is the "IR" things will happen pretty naturally. :):):).

Bill
Gotcha. I’m so new at this, I didn’t want to encourage anything that would injure my DD shoulder/arm/elbow. I’m still apprehensive about everything, because as of right now, we are doing it on our own. We had HE drilled into our heads so much and were taught how safe it was, until we learned it wasn’t that great for the shoulder complex.

Thank you for your explanation. We appreciate you and the other veterans’ on here, for your expertise and willingness to share with us rookies.
 
Aug 21, 2008
869
28
BktMom, don't sweat it. I understand. And it is probably maddening for someone who's brand new to figure things out. When you have 2 people telling you polar opposite things, someone must be right and someone wrong... but who? And for every good coach, there's 10 bad ones. Not that they are malicious, greedy, or jerks (yes there's some of those) but overall it's just people who don't see the forest through the trees, refuse to do their homework, and won't actually pay attention to what's happening to the body when we pitch. I want to believe that every coach has the kid's best interest at heart and nobody is intentionally telling someone to do something "wrong" but it's hard to defend certain things when it flies in the face of what every top level pitcher actually does... male or female. Oh yea, and don't buy into that gender argument some will give you that "men pitch different". Another example of ignorance. Keep doing your homework, your daughter will do just fine.

Bill
 
Aug 1, 2019
18
3
Wow, one year only??? She looks good! If I were you I wouldn't change much. She has brush and that IMO is the most difficult thing to work on. She HAS it!!!! Yes, you can always get better but she is off to a great start. And don't get too hung up on drive mechanics like mentioned earlier by "some" posters. It adds roughly 10 percent to the speed. So your DD is getting 8 percent out of 10. Not enough missing to spend ANY time on. Most importantly it is the whip. You have to have the whip and she does. Where does it come from,? The brush and your DD has it. Keep doing what you are doing!
 
Last edited:
Aug 1, 2019
18
3
Also, I might add, the stepping over the power line topic. Ignore it. If she steps across so be it. Monica Abbott, Doug Gillis, enough said. Sorry, but don't try to correct a "power line" issue. Simply ridiculous and poor advice. Keep doing what you are doing!
 
Jun 16, 2019
24
3
Just one man's opinion here so take it at face value. But, it almost looks like she's FORCING the IR thing. I don't see much whip in her elbow. I would venture a strong guess that if you focused on that a bit more, you'll see the spin go the way you want. Your "IR" should still occur, but with more speed, spin and movement.

There's an old saying that a Hell's Angel with a paperclip can be deadly just like an average man with a handgun. It's about intent. And while the intent of IR is great, to keep people out of the Hello Elbow trap, it can still be dangerous if not done correctly.

Bill
Yes, that was what I was getting at in this post by saying she was I/Ring too early. Thank you for taking the time to respond! I was afraid she was forcing her had to internaly rotate on her own (not naturally) kind of like a turnover drop. Because she was hello elbow we focused on internal rotation first and I showed her what her hand was 'supposed' to do. I think she developed muscle memory to rotate her wrist in instead of letting it happen on it's own. :(
 
Aug 21, 2008
869
28
Yes, that was what I was getting at in this post by saying she was I/Ring too early. Thank you for taking the time to respond! I was afraid she was forcing her had to internaly rotate on her own (not naturally) kind of like a turnover drop. Because she was hello elbow we focused on internal rotation first and I showed her what her hand was 'supposed' to do. I think she developed muscle memory to rotate her wrist in instead of letting it happen on it's own. :(
Keep it simple. Make her WHIP her elbow to the point where the hand nearly finishes to the OPPOSITE shoulder just to get that feel. After that, the spin will be straighter.

Bill
 
Aug 1, 2019
18
3
Keep it simple. Make her WHIP her elbow to the point where the hand nearly finishes to the OPPOSITE shoulder just to get that feel. After that, the spin will be straighter.

Bill
I like what Bill said years ago. Forearm to belly button. I lived on that for years., made it my own, and tweaked it a bit. Some serious good nuggets to that remark. But it can be taken further......Bill we should discuss sometime, I will buy you a beer, steak dinner, etc. etc. LOL:)
Just a gimpse, forearm to belly button.....rise
forearm to belt, down the middle. Not a pitch to throw that often except at the younger ages
forearm to thigh, drop
So easy to make the ball go where you want it if you give the girl some easy direction. Yes, I have a patent on it!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

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