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Interesting article: Senior week or State playoffs?

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
5,878
63
Dallas, Texas
Entitlement based thinking is based upon an individual, or in this case two individuals, who believe that they have free reign and therefore, do not care about their commitment or teammates.
Everyone involved in team sports should read "Boys in the Boat" by Daniel James Brown.

The book is about a group of students and rowers from the University of Washingon and how they won the eight oar gold medal in the 1936 Olympics. It is real inspirational.

The boys won the the championship due to a lot of work, skill and training. But, "winning it all" was due mostly to their commitment to each other. They weren't going to win without the training and the skill, but "winning it all" required more than practice, fitness and competitiveness. It took real concern for their teammates.

In the situation with the softball team, the state championship didn't matter for these two girls. So what? They made a commitment to the team, and they broke that commitment.

The championship did matter to their teammates....who they ignored. How about all those times when they put their hands together and do a cheer? As captains, they probably made the, "Come on, girls. Let's pull together and we can win this" speech many times. Was it all BS? Was it all lies? Is the whole "do something for other people" crap?

There was a kid (Bria Ebels) on my DD#3's hoops team (the team that won the NCAA D3 championship). Bria was by far the best player on the team. She never demanded more playing time. She often played only 15 to 20 minutes a game. No one on the team complained about PT. If the best player on the team doesn't complain about PT then no other kid could complain about PT.

Because she didn't put up eye-popping numbers, she was never a contended for All-American. Not even close.

But because of her, the team was 2 players deep at all the positions.

The team was ranked #5 in the country. Due to the way D3 does seeding, the team had to beat, consecutively the #4, #3, #2, and #1 top seeded teams. The team needed every player to keep from running out of gas. Bria actually sacrificed something to make the team better. (Bria was named the tournament MVP.)

I talked to Bria about it years at the team's 10 year reunion. She said that it never even crossed her mind to ask for more PT. She said something like, "We were a team."
 
Last edited:
Oct 5, 2015
64
8
Interesting reading this thread. Many views seem regionally based and I simply don't have this Hoosier-esque romanticized view of HS ball. I wish I did. My girls made playoffs each of 6 years they played HS (overlapped 2 years) but they went through 3 coaches, numerous parent complaints, drama and spineless administration with an occasional school friend watching the game and it was a grind. I found it much more enjoyable when they played other sports (soccer and field hockey) perhaps because spring sports is so affected by other school activities

While I'm sure my girls missed some of the camaraderie of high school team, I'm sure they have much fonder memories of chilling with teammates in Park City, Boulder and Huntington Beach. I know I did. Your mileage may vary.
 

pattar

Clueless..
Jun 8, 2016
2,981
113
Interesting reading this thread. Many views seem regionally based and I simply don't have this Hoosier-esque romanticized view of HS ball. I wish I did. My girls made playoffs each of 6 years they played HS (overlapped 2 years) but they went through 3 coaches, numerous parent complaints, drama and spineless administration with an occasional school friend watching the game and it was a grind. I found it much more enjoyable when they played other sports (soccer and field hockey) perhaps because spring sports is so affected by other school activities

While I'm sure my girls missed some of the camaraderie of high school team, I'm sure they have much fonder memories of chilling with teammates in Park City, Boulder and Huntington Beach. I know I did. Your mileage may vary.
Your are missing the point..it would be one thing if the WHOLE TEAM skipped the game to go to the beach. That didn't happen here. In this case the game was important to most of the team but these two girls didn't care about that and only cared that they got their instant gratification..
 
Dec 26, 2017
232
28
Oklahoma
It seems like this should be pretty simple-

“If my daughter committed to something, would I make her see it out, barring something like a family emergency, death, etc?”

Are some of your answers really “No- the beach is really fun”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oct 5, 2015
64
8
Your are missing the point..it would be one thing if the WHOLE TEAM skipped the game to go to the beach. That didn't happen here. In this case the game was important to most of the team but these two girls didn't care about that and only cared that they got their instant gratification..
I'm really not missing the point. I just happened to state something that was a bit of segue.

I stated earlier in the thread that there is not enough information to form an opinion on if the girls were right or wrong. They might have signed up for something at the beginning of the school year and had committed to large dollars and airfare and had mentioned to coaches. These are kids. Commitment is great but perhaps they committed to the trip prior to even playing softball. Are the parents going to say, "Susie, you realize that we signed you up for the senior week trip back in September so you can't play softball?" Of course not.

This was simply a hit piece by a reporter going after an easy target
 
Jul 16, 2013
3,056
63
Pennsylvania
It seems like this should be pretty simple-

“If my daughter committed to something, would I make her see it out, barring something like a family emergency, death, etc?”

Are some of your answers really “No- the beach is really fun”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Apparently some are... Some people believe in honoring commitments. Others believe in honoring them, as long as it is convenient...
 

pattar

Clueless..
Jun 8, 2016
2,981
113
I'm really not missing the point. I just happened to state something that was a bit of segue.

I stated earlier in the thread that there is not enough information to form an opinion on if the girls were right or wrong. They might have signed up for something at the beginning of the school year and had committed to large dollars and airfare and had mentioned to coaches. These are kids. Commitment is great but perhaps they committed to the trip prior to even playing softball. Are the parents going to say, "Susie, you realize that we signed you up for the senior week trip back in September so you can't play softball?" Of course not.

This was simply a hit piece by a reporter going after an easy target
You ARE missing the point. They made two commitments. Breaking one of these commitments meant that other people were negatively effected other than themselves yet that is the one they chose to break. That is the textbook definition of being selfish...I don't need any more information than that to make that determination.

I mean I realize that we have REALLY REALLY high ranking members of society who act this way but that doesn't make it anymore correct.
 
Feb 3, 2011
1,832
48
Apparently some are... Some people believe in honoring commitments. Others believe in honoring them, as long as it is convenient...
Exactly. I believed a lot of fairy tales when I was younger. It wasn't that my parents didn't prepare me for the real world, but they never spoke ill of anyone. By contrast, I'm raising my daughter to know that bankers are thieves, for example. When a family has departed any of her teams suddenly, if she has had questions, the answer is simple: "They made what they felt was the best decision for themselves at this time. You and your teammates have a job to do and you personally are obligated to the team for this season."

But then something happened, and DD was the one asking to leave a team before the season was over. In her case, though - and she made an excellent oral argument heard by a 2-judge panel - there was only a 1-way commitment.

We cannot put our standards on anyone else. It's wonderful when everyone involved is all in, but to expect that all the time in all things? Pure fantasy. Hard work is incredible and I think most participants on this forum love it when hard work nets positive results. But one can never discount the value and importance of luck. Keeping 20 bodies healthy and on the active roster throughout States takes a lot of luck.
 
Jun 7, 2019
56
18
This story you've been discussing happened in my area, in the western suburbs of Philadelphia. That school was playing in Class 5A. Meanwhile, in Class 6A, another event like this was happening. The pitcher for Springford HS, who was the Pa Gatorade player of the year, violated HS team policy by playing for her travel team in a PGF qualifier the weekend before. That player was suspended from playing in the State Semi-final, against the same team that had knocked them out of the semi-final two years ago. The link to the article is below. The player, her parents and - it appears - the travel coach knew of the team rule, yet she played anyway. Seems to me that this is the same thing as what you've been talking about in this thread. Btw, I umpired 7 games in that tournament, and had the Strikers twice. But I was unaware of this controversy at the time.

 
Last edited:
Jul 16, 2013
3,056
63
Pennsylvania
This story you've been discussing happened in my area, in the western suburbs of Philadelphia. That school was playing in Class 5A. Meanwhile, in Class 6A, another event like this was happening. The pitcher for Springford HS, who was the Pa Gatorade player of the year, violated HS team policy by playing for her travel team in a PGF qualifier the weekend before. That player was suspended from playing in the State Semi-final, against the same team that had knocked them out of the semi-final two years ago. The link to the article is below. The player, her parents and - it appears - the travel coach knew of the team rule, yet she played anyway. Seems to me that this is the same thing as what you've been talking about in this thread. Btw, I umpired 7 games in that tournament, and had the Strikers twice. But I was unaware of this controversy at the time.

That was a good read. Thank you for sharing. And, yes, I do agree that there are a lot of similarities between the two topics. While I may not personally be a fan of that specific rule, it is a rule the coach has in place and must be followed. From being a member of this site, I have learned that some states have a "state rule" against this. But that is not the case in PA. It is a school by school, coach by coach thing. I will offer my thoughts from different points of view.

Coach -- I have a lot of respect for this coach's decision. If he has a rule, and has communicated it to all the players, then he needs to follow it. Faced with this situation, I"m sure a lot of coaches would have looked the other way for an opportunity to have his star play in this big game. The fact that he stuck to the rule is admirable.

Player -- Just as my view with the other situation, it is ultimately the player's choice to make. If she feels that the PGF tournament was more important than the high school game, that is her choice. But either way she needs to be willing to live with the consequences. If I was a teammate, I would be very disappointed in her decision. As a parent, I would also be disappointed. I would help her through the process as best as I could, but she would definitely have a say in the final decision herself.

Travel ball coach -- this part is a little grey to me. The author seems to point some blame at the travel ball coach, making the assumption that the coach is aware of the school's rule. I'm not convinced that is the case. When I was coaching high school students, I made it a point to ask each player what rules their high school coach had in place. Some were "no travel ball". Some were "limited". Some didn't care at all. It's a small area, so I know some of the high school coaches personally. But I don't know how much communication occurs between travel coaches and high school coaches in other areas. My gut feeling is not much.
 

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