Injury Study

[CoachJD]

Cant be more ignorant than not counting at all.

True.

But I've yet to see a good argument for any specific number as a threshold. A lot of comparisons to baseball, but it's just nowhere near the same. I can easily throw 200 front toss pitches (full windmill, but not a full pitch with the lower body, etc) and not feel anything later. If I threw 200 overhand pitches I wouldn't be able to lift my arm over my head for a few days. You can absolutely overuse softball pitchers (and, btw, it doesn't always show up in arm fatigue/injuries as others have noted), but 100 softball pitches =/= 100 baseball pitches.

Pitch counts in softball could be a good thing. Copying baseball's pitch counts is pretty stupid and uninformed.

 

[Lreeve]

Overuse injuries are by nature caused by to many reps, of whatever movement caused the injury. Pitch counts would 100% stop the ignorant coach and parents allowing a girl to pitch 300-400 pitches in one day. Why do people do this? Because they are told windmill pitching is a natural motion and overuse is not possible. There is nothing natural about it, if it was it would not be so hard to learn and just about anyone could do it.

At the 10u-14u levels I would say you are seeing injury from parents believing that if they just keep practicing, they will make their kid an elite athlete. Not all kids are the same. Some kids can throw 100 pitches a night, some only 30. I would never think making my daughter run sprints all night would make her Usain Bolt, but many parents do think that their kid is going to turn into Jenny Finch if they practice hard enough. I have personally seen someone be injured by trying to throw harder than they were actually able and were being pushed to go harder, the fact it was mixed with a half IR/HE style kind of sealed the deal on her getting injured. The real reason pitchers get fewer as they get older is because there are fewer girls who can pitch at certain speeds or handle the stamina needed without being injured on the way there.

 

[YoungBuck]

At the 10u-14u levels I would say you are seeing injury from parents believing that if they just keep practicing, they will make their kid an elite athlete. Not all kids are the same. Some kids can throw 100 pitches a night, some only 30. I would never think making my daughter run sprints all night would make her Usain Bolt, but many parents do think that their kid is going to turn into Jenny Finch if they practice hard enough. I have personally seen someone be injured by trying to throw harder than they were actually able and were being pushed to go harder, the fact it was mixed with a half IR/HE style kind of sealed the deal on her getting injured. The real reason pitchers get fewer as they get older is because there are fewer girls who can pitch at certain speeds or handle the stamina needed without being injured on the way there.

The elephant in the room is that travel softball is not set up for pitchers to be developed... sure some teams do - they are the exception. Most simply find the next 'arm' when the last one is worn through. It's a boom and bust format that only benefits tournament organizers.

 

[Westwind]

The elephant in the room is that travel softball is not set up for pitchers to be developed... sure some teams do - they are the exception. Most simply find the next 'arm' when the last one is worn through. It's a boom and bust format that only benefits tournament organizers.

Don’t leave college coaches out. They fuss about three sport athletes and arm health so they can be the ones to throw the kid ’til her arm falls off. There is a reason college pitchers peak before their senior year then fade away.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The elephant in the room is that travel softball is not set up for pitchers to be developed... sure some teams do - they are the exception. Most simply find the next 'arm' when the last one is worn through. It's a boom and bust format that only benefits tournament organizers.

I agree, but I would offer a tweak ... travel softball is set up for player development with the sheer volume of games and practices. Coaches don't execute on player development.

 

[chinamigarden]

Right, no distinction made between pitching styles (HE vs IR) in this study. In your daughter's case, I'd bet a combination of growth/physical maturity and skill development in her IR years vs HE years is a driver behind lack of back pain.

I'm about as far from a pitching expert as you can get, but it seems to me that IR is a much more explosive/"violent" pitching mechanic vs HE, so I'd expect overall to see overuse result in more injury in those pitchers.

I’m not sure how you came to the idea that IR is a more violent mechanic vs HE.

 

[FP26]

True.

But I've yet to see a good argument for any specific number as a threshold. A lot of comparisons to baseball, but it's just nowhere near the same. I can easily throw 200 front toss pitches (full windmill, but not a full pitch with the lower body, etc) and not feel anything later. If I threw 200 overhand pitches I wouldn't be able to lift my arm over my head for a few days. You can absolutely overuse softball pitchers (and, btw, it doesn't always show up in arm fatigue/injuries as others have noted), but 100 softball pitches =/= 100 baseball pitches.

Pitch counts in softball could be a good thing. Copying baseball's pitch counts is pretty stupid and uninformed.

Just curious... When you throw with a windmill motion, are you throwing 55 mph+? My daughter is currently studying for a Doctorate in Physical Therapy and has talked to several Sports Medicine specialists on the topic. The motion itself is not necessarily the issue, unless improper mechanics are used. It is the rapid deceleration of the arm after the ball is released that causes excessive pressure on the shoulder joint. This pressure will increase as the mph increases. Of course every athlete is different. The compounding effects will impact some athletes more than others. I am by no means an expert on the topic. Just sharing information from people that know more than I do.

 

[lostcreek1]

Seen a girl this weekend pitch 5 straight games in 10u. Ignorant coaches and parents.