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Injury risk

Aug 4, 2008
2,364
0
Lexington,Ohio
We have used a stategy for years. When we have two very good pitchers that are equal in ability but have differnt styles. We rotate them each inning, so the batter doesn't see the same pitcher back to back. It really plays mind game with the hitters. This year I have a pitching coach that won't allow his girl to do this, as he stated this will cause an injury. Never heard this before, in softball, but yes in baseball. I don't want to take the risk. Anyone else heard of this issue. If Bill Hillhouse reads this I would like his insight.
 

May 12, 2008
2,217
0
Over use, bad mechanics and or unfortunate genetics cause injury. So dad thinks his DD will get injured because she pitches a little less? Does he gripe when she has a quick five pitch three up three down inning and then your team bats a long time? Seems silly to me but why push it? Just go through the lineup once or twice with one pitcher and then change.

Watched a long time winning gold coach with two pitchers win a gold regionals once with the following strategy. He had one returning college stud and one very good hs freshman. He didn't figure to get all the way through the tourney with one pitcher so he used the flex dp thing such that the freshman hit and started every inning. If she got in trouble at all, the college pitcher came in and closed the inning. Next inning, the freshman came out again. Both pitchers completed stellar college careers. No problems.
 
Aug 6, 2008
43
0
Excellent strategy! Of course it depends on the overall situation. If your starter is strong and still getting it done after the 2nd time through the order, why change? But as soon as she's timed up, make a quick change! I have seen college coaches sometimes wait WAY too long before making a pitching change. I agree with Mark - once through the order, then switch (typically 2 1/2 to 3 innings).

Injury?? As long as she stays "warm" - jacket, throw a few bullpen pitches before returning, etc. - how would she get injured? Unless, of course, she trips on the way back from the concession stand and drops her hotdogs! :eek: It's not baseball...
 
Aug 4, 2008
2,364
0
Lexington,Ohio
Thanks. It's the pitching coach of one of the kids that stated they will get injured and I have done this for years. I have seen kids in softball pitch 5 games in one day, as I told the father that brought this up, this isn't baseball.
 
May 12, 2008
2,217
0
It's not worth losing a good pitcher over. I'd push back about any other area a dad wanted me to change but I'd try not to push back when it's a safety concern unless I had to.
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,695
0
We have used a stategy for years. When we have two very good pitchers that are equal in ability but have differnt styles. We rotate them each inning, so the batter doesn't see the same pitcher back to back. It really plays mind game with the hitters. This year I have a pitching coach that won't allow his girl to do this, as he stated this will cause an injury. Never heard this before, in softball, but yes in baseball. I don't want to take the risk. Anyone else heard of this issue. If Bill Hillhouse reads this I would like his insight.
As another poster said, keep the jacket on and stay as loose and as warm as possible. However, she is probably playing her 'second' position when not pitching so she will only get 5 warm up throws prior to pitching. Yes, a good recipe for an injury because she will NOT be warmed up enough to pitch with just 5 pitches.

The strategy you refer to is not really a mind game. I used this when I pitched and taught it for years. However, I taught pitchers to pitch with two and sometimes three different pitching styles. Your 'strategy' is simply not letting the other hitters get the pitchers timing down. I taught every pitcher to change styles on every batter, because the timing is so different. You are constantly changing from L&D to double pump with an occassional submarine wind up to make the batters either hurry up or wait. Taking the hitters timing away is devastating to them because there is NO WAY to train a hitter to deal with that. It is tactical pitching at it's best.

Take their timing away and you take their bat away.

When you say 'pitching coach', do you mean pitching instructor or a team coach? It is his daughter????

Hal

More pitching tactics.
 
Jun 20, 2008
235
0
I believe that this is good stragedy how ever, don't most rule sets only allow a pitcher to be removed and re-entered as the pitcher one time? So with two pitchers you could go 4 innings like this?
 
Jun 20, 2008
235
0
Thanks. It's the pitching coach of one of the kids that stated they will get injured and I have done this for years. I have seen kids in softball pitch 5 games in one day, as I told the father that brought this up, this isn't baseball.
I'm no longer of the opinion that the windmill pitching motion can not produce overuse injuries...It can and improper mechanics can also lead to injuries.
I don't want to jump on a soap box here or start anything, but 5 games in a day is dangerous and a $10 dollar plastic trophy is not worth injuring a young pitcher...My DD's will not do it anymore...However, if they stay warmed up there is no problem with alternating pitchers as rules allow...
 
Aug 4, 2008
2,364
0
Lexington,Ohio
It is a pitching coach, not a coach. He has now changed his mind, after he talked to a very good pitching coach. As long at they do not leave the game and you do not change the batting order. They are just like any other defensive move. Example inning 1 pitcher ,inning2 CF and back and forth. Not my pitcher that did the 5 games , this is one of Hillhouse's students and she is the best 14U pitcher in our state. I think she pitched 69 games last year. Excellent motion and mechanics and she has a personnel trainer.
 
Aug 21, 2008
838
18
Well, since you asked my opinion specifically, I'll offer it but first let me make sure one thing is VERY clear. I am not the team coach or parent of that girl who pitched 5 games in a day so I did not encourage it! But, If my memory serves, this was a National tournament not a run of the mill weekend event. I think they won this tournament too, if I'm not mistaken. Had this not been a national, I would agree somewhat with 2bucketdad that it's crazy to throw that much. Personally, I think kids play way too many games over a weekend and it deadens them to wins and losses somewhat. A game becomes a game, win or lose and its easy to get over losses easier when they know they have 3 more games that day. I think this sucks. A loss should hurt. But they are deadening their senses. But I digress.

I see some validity to this strategy but, from a personal standpoint, I'm not a fan of it. Sometimes a pitcher takes an inning or 2 to get into their flow. It can also take the umpire time to adjust to the different motions being used and this can result in missed pitches. While they should be looking at the ball, they don't always do that. So, that's a gamble too. IMHO, this strategy is like the age old debate over when to throw a change up... Theory #1 is show it early and let them know you have it. THeory #2 is don't throw it until they prove they can hit your hard stuff. (depending on the competition should be a major factor in this but, I'm a fan of theory #1). Both have valid arguments. From a pitcher's perspective, I would be upset about coming out of a game when I just had a 3 up/3 down inning simply to give them another look. More or less, "if it's not broke, why fix it". Besides, lets face it... a lot of girls teams are not studying the pitcher to read her and pick up her pitches. They are busy chanting in the dugout or not paying attention. So, from one inning to the next I'm not sure how much of the success you'd be getting is because of the 'different look' they're seeing.

Now in saying that, the 3rd time through the order... they should have a good clue about this pitcher's release point(s) and may have a better shot. But on the flip side, the pitcher should also be watching/seeing what and where the batter's holes are in the swing. So it's cat and mouse. It sometimes depends on who did more learning through the course of the game. And sometimes it's just dumb luck.

So, in short... yes this strategy can be successful. But so can letting your pitcher go out and throw a shut out. I'd worry more about poor mechanics and field conditions for your injury concerns, than I would this strategy.

Bill

As Hal said, if she's staying warm and loose, I don't see the real injury concern here. Especially as the weather gets warm.
 

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