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Importance of lead shoulder speed.

Jun 17, 2009
15,129
0
Portland, OR
I'm not a golfer, but from a softball/baseball perspective I do not believe that to be of any useful instructional value. Any talk of doing or thinking about anything having to do with moving/turning the shoulder(s) independently outside of the kinetic chain of the "bottom-->up" if you will, is to me poor advice to be giving a hitter of any age. JMO...OMMV.
I want the torso engine pulling on the lead-arm.
 

Apr 11, 2015
353
16
I want the torso engine pulling on the lead-arm.
Yes, I think we've discussed this before, and came to the conclusion that your "torso" terminology is basically the same as my terminology using "rear hip". So while not exactly the same names, pretty sure we're in agreement on the same "engine" doing the pulling. :)
 
Oct 13, 2014
1,050
38
South Cali
Imagine (as in don't actually try it) a strap from the lead shoulder that goes around the back, and then is attached to the rear hip. Coil rearward to imaginarily load the hips (rear hip predominately), and "stretch" the strap with the inward turn of the shoulders (again, imaginary for discussion purposes because we don't want to necessarily start counter-rotating the shoulders), and then at launch...as the rear hip is fired/driven forward, let it pull the lead shoulder rearward via the strap attaching the two. Kind of like this idea....

...as the rear hip goes forward, it pulls the lead shoulder rearward via the "blue strap" above.

Hope that helps a little.
Is it the coil that loads the rear hip to get this stretch? Actively coil? Or is it something else?
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,129
0
Portland, OR
Donny described a "U Method" to help young developing hitters learn the upper body positioning.

The U is a line drawn from the point of the lead shoulder, down the lead arm , across the forearm, and back up the barrel.

One option for group teaching LL players is to form the U and then rock the shoulder unit back ( rock the U) until the tip of the lead elbow is behind the belly button

This is a position the kids can see easily and remember and is a reliable preloaded upper body.

Teaching them to cock the hands , maintain the U and rock the U to a point behind the belly button is important.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,129
0
Portland, OR
Is it the coil that loads the rear hip to get this stretch? Actively coil? Or is it something else?
WW, I believe there is more going on in the torso than the 'strap' that Mud discussed that runs from the lead shoulder, along the back, and connecting to the rear hip.



Take note that with the lead shoulder 'down and in', that the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is less than the distance between the "rear shoulder and rear hip". That relationship is reversed as the swing is launched.

At swing launch the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is expanded ... elevating the lead lat and pulling the lead shoulder upwards.

 
Apr 11, 2015
353
16
Is it the coil that loads the rear hip to get this stretch? Actively coil? Or is it something else?
"Coil" is a broad term because there are several ways of coiling. But to answer your question...yes, in the generally accepted term of "coil" meaning to turn, load, gather, or whatever rearward move one wants to coil...yes, it is the "coil that loads the rear hip to get this stretch".
 
Apr 11, 2015
353
16
WW, I believe there is more going on in the torso than the 'strap' that Mud discussed that runs from the lead shoulder, along the back, and connecting to the rear hip.
Yes, and why I said to use one's imagination, and to not really try it. :)

Take note that with the lead shoulder 'down and in', that the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is less than the distance between the "rear shoulder and rear hip". That relationship is reversed as the swing is launched.

At swing launch the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is expanded ... elevating the lead lat and pulling the lead shoulder upwards.

Agreed, but imagine that same imaginary "strap" on Josh above.

As he loads/coils rearward with his hips, as he takes the "lead shoulder 'down and in'"...can you picture the strap stretching or tightening, and then as he fires the rear hip 'down and in'...how that would then pull on the strap to pull the lead shoulder 'up and back' away from the lead hip?

Again, you need a little imagination, and I'm not saying throwing a strap around someone back is any kind of training device...all I'm getting at is how the shoulder(s) should be reactive, moved, and/or rotated by other body parts, and not have their rotation initiated by the shoulders themselves.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,129
0
Portland, OR
Yes, and why I said to use one's imagination, and to not really try it. :)


Agreed, but imagine that same imaginary "strap" on Josh above.

As he loads/coils rearward with his hips, as he takes the "lead shoulder 'down and in'"...can you picture the strap stretching or tightening, and then as he fires the rear hip 'down and in'...how that would then pull on the strap to pull the lead shoulder 'up and back' away from the lead hip?

Again, you need a little imagination, and I'm not saying throwing a strap around someone back is any kind of training device...all I'm getting at is how the shoulder(s) should be reactive, moved, and/or rotated by other body parts, and not have their rotation initiated by the shoulders themselves.
Bold above ... yes to the first part ... I have a feel of the 'strap' stretching/tightening as the lead shoulder is moved down & in.

I'm struggling a bit with the second part .... specifically the hip 'down and in' portion. Any chance that could be the rear side oblique instead of the rear hip?
 

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