Illegal pitching-no call??

[DNeeld]

She is leaping. Her drive foot does not drag.

The first part I'm not 100% sure I agree with. The second part is true with the caveat "from the rubber".

That said, the foot does NOT have to drag on the ground on a dirt field according to the rules. I'm paraphrasing, but the rules allow a pitcher to not drag as long as the height of the leap does not exceed what the ground level would be if there were no trench dug in front of the rubber.

I'm not convinced this pitcher leaps up above level ground without knowing if there was a trench in front of the rubber and/or how deep it was.

The push knee only points back and flexes if the pitcher has crow hopped.

This is simply not true.

 

[texasheat]

OK, you’ve given me your opinion repeatedly (Coach), but what is it you are seeing?

Odd that some people are obviously seeing a crow hop while some are clearly seeing a leap. Can’t be both.

(And yes, Comp is an ump. He and I don’t always agree, but he’s been around here much longer than I have and I respect his opinion.)

Lol.....You need me to spell it out again? I just put this in my previous post but I'll do it again for the umpire with the bad vision.

Her drive foot does not drag

Secondly, it certainly can be both a leap and a crow hop. Not sure why you say it can't.

 

[Bernie]

I'm more concerned with the replant and then the PUSH prior to pitch being released (arm approximately 9 o'clock). This last 25 percent of the arm circle is where most of her power comes from. Some instructors contend this gives another 3-5 MPH. That's the reason it's illegal.


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[SonicMojo]

Secondly, it certainly can be both a leap and a crow hop. Not sure why you say it can't.

I think he's just saying that once the leap occurs, it's an illegal pitch, so it doesn't matter if there's a replant that follows the initial leap.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Lol.....You need me to spell it out again? I just put this in my previous post but I'll do it again for the umpire with the bad vision.

Her drive foot does not drag

Secondly, it certainly can be both a leap and a crow hop. Not sure why you say it can't.

I’m not trying to beat you up Tex, but you haven’t spelled it out in the first place. You keep telling us what you are asserting, but you have not told us what you are seeing. Also, now it is both a crow hop and a leap?

For those of you who keep saying umpiring is easy and we are all dense because we aren’t caving to repetition of a statement, this should not be difficult.

So ... I guess I have to provide examples that can now be repeated back to us: I am seeing her foot leaving the ground. I am seeing daylight under her foot. I am seeing a lack of drag marks. I am seeing a landing spot.

The reason the umpires here are not jumping on “It just is illegal, Blue!” is because we cannot see any of those things in the video. I believe we have each added the caveat “in the video” meaning she may very well be doing something illegal, but we cannot see it in the video.

You can talk about angles of joints, direction of feet, etc. but none of those things are illegal by rule. They may be hints that something illegal is occurring, but they are not illegal in and of themselves.

 

[IPHAWK#18]

This is a great thread just like watching 2 opposing coaches battle an umpire with both teams parents yelling from the stands.



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[texasheat]

This is a great thread just like watching 2 opposing coaches battle an umpire with both teams parents yelling from the stands.



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Ha ha, agreed! That's why I'm bowing out of it. They can have it.

 

[RIZZARIJOE]

Boy that’s so close. I’m sure she isn’t touching the ground
But I suppose the umps didn’t consider it grows negligence.




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Are you kidding me? As an umpire it’s nearly impossible to see that leap. We’re trained not to guess a call. There definitely is no crow hop! There might be a leap, but there isn’t a replant with a separate impetus, which would constitute a crow hop.

Why is it always the losing coach or parent that complains of an illegal pitch? With slow motion it’s difficult to detect. In real time it’s impossible!! Not to dump on the poster, but I get dismayed when over

To the op, it's illegal. It's a leap, not a crow hop as previously mentioned. It's can be difficult to call because if there is a hole in front of the pitching rubber, the foot can lose contact with the ground and not be illegal as long as it doesn't go higher than the pitching rubber.

The form is bad and wastes energy upwards instead of towards the batter. My daughter got called on this one time by an irate opposing coach. My daughter fixed her form and actually picked up speed. I told the coach he would have been better off to not saying anything. However, when the pitcher is getting hit hard, nothing is said. If the pitcher is mowing them down then all of sudden everyone is worried about illegal pitches and looking through the rule book.

You said it! If a girl is being lit up like a Christmas tree, nobody mentions anything illegal. But if it is a great picture, then everyone is looking for even the smallest technicality to try and rattle the pitcher. What bothers me the most is whatever happened to sportsmanship. Let the girls play.

 

[The Man In Blue]

This is a great thread just like watching 2 opposing coaches battle an umpire with both teams parents yelling from the stands.



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That’s how I was approaching this ... and it got the same result. I provided a chance to learn something and plenty of opportunity to explain what the coach was seeing.

Which means nobody learned anything and we will have this same debate in the next tournament.



To try to bring some sanity back to the thread ...

When I encounter a pitcher like this — meaning it may be legal, it may be illegal, but it’s hard to tell either way — I am doing a few things:

*Watching her warmups — you can’t use this as some pitchers warmup different from how they pitch, but it can provide clues on where/what to watch

*Taking a trip around the bases — if I can’t tell with certainty, I want to see it all the way around. Yes, that means it may be several batters before I get a look from A, B, and C positions.

*Checking the circle — when I go brush off the pitcher’s plate, I’m looking at the drag marks. I may even brush around dirt in front of the plate to get a clean surface to compare after the inning.

 

[SonicMojo]

You said it! If a girl is being lit up like a Christmas tree, nobody mentions anything illegal. But if it is a great picture, then everyone is looking for even the smallest technicality to try and rattle the pitcher. What bothers me the most is whatever happened to sportsmanship. Let the girls play.

That's fine. Let the girls play!
Don't call slappers out for being out of the box. Let the girls play!
Don't call runners out for leaving bases early. Let the girls play!
Don't call catcher's interference. Let the girls play!
Don't call obstruction. Let the girls play!
Don't call girls out for not tagging up. Let the girls play!
Don't call girls out for missing bases. Let the girls play!
Don't call strike three. Let the girls play!
Don't call the batter out if the first baseman pulled her foot off the bag. Let the girls play!
Don't call batted balls foul. Let the girls play!