Illegal pitching-no call??

[The Man In Blue]

Amen Amen Amen. Blows my mind that they will call illegal pitch if there is no contact with the pitcher's plate by the back foot with one pitcher and the next half inning the other pitcher leaps every pitch and nothing is said. Terrible.

Some things are much easier to see than others. I will also say, as an umpire, that it frustrates me when umpires do not call illegal pitches. There are three reasons that an illegal pitch doesn’t get called:
1) Umpire is not seeing it occur
2) Umpire does not understand the rule or what he/she is seeing
3) Coach and parents are wrong, the pitch wasn’t illegal

Most often, it is #3. However, 1 and 2 will perpetuate it.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The only time I've ever seen umpires call illegal pitches has to do with coming onto the rubber with hands separated. I've seen that called a bunch of times. This amuses me because it's a minor thing that doesn't give much of an advantage, while that replant definitely does give an advantage. But they don't call that, pretty much ever.

Umm. The hands should be separated when stepping onto the rubber.

 

[The Man In Blue]

To the op, it's illegal. It's a leap, not a crow hop as previously mentioned. It's can be difficult to call because if there is a hole in front of the pitching rubber, the foot can lose contact with the ground and not be illegal as long as it doesn't go higher than the pitching rubber.

The form is bad and wastes energy upwards instead of towards the batter. My daughter got called on this one time by an irate opposing coach. My daughter fixed her form and actually picked up speed. I told the coach he would have been better off to not saying anything. However, when the pitcher is getting hit hard, nothing is said. If the pitcher is mowing them down then all of sudden everyone is worried about illegal pitches and looking through the rule book.

I still don’t agree that it is obviously a leap. Not by that video anyway.

I do agree with your last point. I’m no kinesthesiologist, but it seems like wasted momentum to me.

 

[grcsftbll]

Umm. The hands should be separated when stepping onto the rubber.

I know. I'm saying that's the only illegal pitch I ever see called. And to me it's down the list when it comes to giving an advantage to the pitcher.

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[The Man In Blue]

I know. I'm saying that's the only illegal pitch I ever see called. And to me it's down the list when it comes to giving an advantage to the pitcher.

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I’m razzing you because I assume you mean stepping on with the hands together (not apart).

Not so much an advantage, but it encourages the pitcher to not pause. It provides clear points of the steps of a pitch. The signal, if taken on the plate, must also come before the hands come together.

 

[Bernie]

NFHS Definitions:

SECTION 16 CROW HOP A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch.

This seems simple to me. The pitcher in the OP's video is definitely replanting prior to delivering the pitch.

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[4KidsDad]

And there we have it…5 pages of disagreement whether the OP is an illegal pitch or not.

Can't blame the Umpires for calling it or not. This type of delivery continues to be controversial.

 

[The Man In Blue]

NFHS Definitions:

SECTION 16 CROW HOP A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch.

This seems simple to me. The pitcher in the OP's video is definitely replanting prior to delivering the pitch.

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Bernie, I’ll admit that the NFHS definition has given me a little skepticism over my thoughts on the fulcrum. You are right that it says “replant” ... and a “pivot point” certainly could be construed as a replant. The problem is this is one of those areas where the rule book possibly contradicts itself.

The definition just says “replant”. However the rule itself says “Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher’s plate is illegal.” That “pivot point” is not a push.

USA’s definition includes the “push” verbiage.

 

[EcoT]

 

[Comp]

I have posted this numerous times over the years. This was from USA softball back when it was ASA and NFHS put out almost the exact same statement at the same time. I can no longer access the NFHS statement as they are horrible about archiving their older information in a way that makes it accessible.

"For the past few months or so we have been asked about a pitching style called a “Push, Drag, Push” or a “Crow Drag in Women’s and Junior Olympic Fast Pitch. This is described as a pitcher that pushes from the pitcher’s plate, drags her pivot foot, stops and pushes again. We have been told that there are some indicators like a bent leg or the pivot foot bearing weight as a factor in this style of pitching. We have looked at several videos and several pitchers. We disagree that any of these pitchers are pushing, dragging, stopping and pushing again. We can see what appears to be a pivot by the pivot foot at the end of their delivery but not a re-push.
Nowhere in the ASA rules does it state anything illegal about the pivot foot bearing weight or the leg being bent. As long as the pivot foot starts on the pitcher's plate and pushes away, remains on the ground within the 24-inch width of the pitcher's plate and the arm continues without stopping in the delivery, it is a legal pitch. The pitcher opening her hips causes the foot to turn (pivot mark in the dirt) and then with pivot foot remaining on the ground (drag mark), the pitcher then closes her hips which produces another pivot mark in the dirt. This is not an illegal pitch by ASA pitching rules. We would also add, it is not possible to push, drag, stop and re-push while the non-pivot foot is in the air. It is possible to re-push if you leap and land."

Unless you can definitively state the pitcher has leaped, then the delivery is legal. When you have to slow something down to super slow motion and still cannot tell if the foot is actually off the ground or not then it is not going to be called in real time.