illegal pitches?

[_MIA_]

What kills us as coaches is that our kids don't actually suck. They've played some great games. They played their first game as a team this year (with four 6th graders starting) in tournament pool play against a pitcher and team from a catholic school that could slay just about any HS team I've seen in the area. An 8th grader clocked at the tournament at 61 with laser accuracy. Best pitcher I've seen in person at any age. She had 8 strikeouts and an easy put-out at 1B. They were animals. But we took almost everything they gave us. They beat us 15-0 in three innings, but never had to step off the base to get us out of the inning. That was huge for us. They played well that whole tournament, but ultimately lose three of four. But it's like 3/4 of the time they forget how well they can do. It's all mental with them. They're just so young that they haven't been able to just fight through mistakes. It's so hard to watch and we've tried everything we can think of to accelerate the process. They've won some games and those wins were a big help, but overall they just haven't lived up to the team we see in practice. They want to win, but still haven't figured out how to do it consistently against teams they should be able to compete with.

But hey...maybe the problem is coaching..lol

Suck was too strong a word but if you go position by position how many positions were you better at in those 3 losses? To take this to an extreme, how many teams that OU played this year and run-ruled, had players that were All-State players, players that played, and won, on HL TB teams? Those kids know how to win. Confidence is important for sure, but sometimes the other team just has better players..

 

[radness]

Release point can impact velocity,
especially since the ball loses speed due to gravity and drag the moment it is released from the pitcher's hand.

Change in velocity (mph)
( the change in speed of a moving object)
Is what alters/affects batter's timing.

My only argument for why leaping helps is that it allows the pitcher to release closer to the plate. As for the rest of the mechanics, I leave that to my daughter's highly qualified instructor who said a true leap does more to mess up the average pitcher's mechanics than help them.

Release point is irrelevant to how fast the ball is traveling. Because the pitch can be thrown at different speeds from the same release point.
*However recognizing where the pitcher releases the ball is part of timing.
* Along with recognizing the speed of the pitch.

Two separate visual cue's.

 

[PJR202]

Change in velocity (mph)
(Which is the change in speed of a moving object)
Is what alters/affects batter's timing.

Release point is irrelevant to how fast the ball is traveling. Because the pitch can be thrown at different speeds from the same release point.
*However recognizing where the pitcher releases the ball is part of timing.
* Along with recognizing the speed of the pitch.

Two separate visual cue's.

Release point is very relevant. The fastball is "faster." A pitch she commonly throws a bit low is higher. A pitch that usually skirts the corner of the plate is now a strike. All things being equal; closer is more accurate.

 

[radness]

Release point is very relevant. The fastball is "faster." A pitch she commonly throws a bit low is higher. A pitch that usually skirts the corner of the plate is now a strike. All things being equal; closer is more accurate.

Yes release point is very relevant. Agreed. Because we get to see the ball start coming at us.
However it does not determine the speed of a pitch.

Closer may seem more accurate but it doesn't always make it so. Because being accurate has to do with mechanics. Not necessarily distance.

* I'm speaking directly to release Point itself. not analyzing a pitcher's mechanics. Analyzing a pitcher's mechanics is another topic. That can include recognizing what spin is going on the pitched ball.

 

[Dabears17]

My DD pitched and/or caught for 6 years, which helps her with recognizing pitches and hitting.

Simple physics says if you are leaping, energy is being wasted in the vertical direction. It may or may not be a wash, but in less experienced pitchers the leap is caused by poor mechanics. If the pitcher is "replanting" and pushing off again, then that definitely should be called, as that gives them an advantage. I dug out the video from when my DD's leaping was at it's worst and she is leaping into a toe drag, not replanting. Fixing her mechanics involved shortening her stride some (among several things), and she picked up 3 to 4 mph.

What is amusing is she didn't get called for leaping in this game, but did get called two weeks later with it mostly fixed. But it was from a league whose teams bend the rules and try to get in their opponents head. My DD's teams are 3-0 since then (including a 16u travel and a HS game) against the DD of the HC who insisted she be called for leaping in a championship game as an 11 year old. What I recall is it was the PU calling her illegal, when it is the BU's call. Blue was calling it every time she was in the air more than an inch or two. We still won the tournament that day.

My philosophy as a coach is until 14u, just let the girls enjoy the game and coaches should not get into the head of the other team's players. Though, even in 8u All-Stars if the other coach is being nit-picky about a rule to get in the girls' heads, I'd politely insist to the umpire every single rule be followed to the letter of the law, including number of coaches allowed outside the dugout, etc.

DD at worst:

 

[PJR202]

Suck was too strong a word but if you go position by position how many positions were you better at in those 3 losses? To take this to an extreme, how many teams that OU played this year and run-ruled, had players that were All-State players, players that played, and won, on HL TB teams? Those kids know how to win. Confidence is important for sure, but sometimes the other team just has better players..

Nah, I understood what you meant. It's fine. I'm pretty realistic about our skill set.

When playing like we're capable of playing, we're a middle-of-the-pack team, and we really didn't end up much lower than middle as far as records go. We have our weaknesses like any team, but we've only faced a couple opponents that were clearly better. Some of the teams we've taken down to the 5th inning in a close match. But others, like the one we played monday...run ruled us, yet a few weeks ago we beat a team that run-ruled the monday team. We just lack resiliency. We give up a few early runs and our pitcher's shoulders droop, then the girls stop lunging or taking that extra half step to field one. Fly balls are pulled up behind instead of running through them. They really struggle to know how to fight back consistently. And when a very bad call or disregard for the rules has a direct effect on our momentum, we have to fight for them. What good are we as coaches if we aren't willing to step outside our own comfort zone? I hate conflict, but I'm willing to go there for the girls. We've also been trying to inspire some of them to be leaders on the field. Hold each other accountable. Lift each other up. Make the play that reignites the fire. It's just so tough, though. 12 of our 14 have two years or less of playing experience, and you can't coach experience. Damned if we aren't trying though..lol

 

[PJR202]

Yes release point is very relevant. Agreed. Because we get to see the ball start coming at us.
However it does not determine the speed of a pitch.

Closer may seem more accurate but it doesn't always make it so. Because being accurate has to do with mechanics. Not necessarily distance.

* I'm speaking directly to release Point itself. not analyzing a pitcher's mechanics. Analyzing a pitcher's mechanics is another topic. That can include recognizing what spin is going on the pitched ball.

All things being equal, a closer release point requires faster reaction time. From the same distance, more speed requires faster reaction time. They're one in the same. Distance has a direct effect on speed from the batter's perspective. 75mph at 43 feet is 100+ at 60.5 feet. Could the pitcher throw the fastball at varying speeds regardless? Sure. But her fastest fastball gets faster with every inch closer to the plate.

Again, all things being equal, for many pitches closer will be more accurate. I can hit a can with a ball from 5ft away a lot more than I can from 15ft away. That fringe pitch that gets farther from accurate the farther away will get closer as it gets closer. I'll be fair and say fringe pitches with regard to height would suffer at closer distances, for sure. My own daughter would be hosed on those, but she has fringe low pitches too.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

But her fastest fastball gets faster with every inch closer to the plate.

How much closer do they get when they leap? 10ft? 15ft?

 

[LEsoftballdad]

If you want to say the pitch speed itself doesn't change if you're closer or further away, I will concede that point. However, your reaction time is reduced as a hitter if a pitch is released closer to the plate, even if it's the same speed.

Randy Johnson was 6'10" and threw 96-97 MPH. There were other pitchers who threw that hard in the 1990s that were nowhere near as intimidating because they released the ball 2 feet further away than he did. In essence, their reaction time was reduced because Johnson's release of the ball was so much closer to the plate.

 

[PJR202]

How much closer do they get when they leap? 10ft? 15ft?

How much slower does a batter react when they get closer to the plate?