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Illegal Pitch X2 scenarios

I have two pitchers each with an issue that I would like addressed by someone that knows the ruling for girls fastpitch. We're in British Columbia and the girls are Squirt level ages 10/11.
GIRL ONE does a change of direction. (1).She puts her hands together, (2).raises them up slightly to about 10:00, (3).then drops them right down still in front of her and (4).then goes into her windmill up and over her head...............She does it all in one quick motion, but does change direction.

GIRL TWO does something very different than the first. (1).She puts her hands together, (2).She bends her body down a bit and passes her hips with the ball and her hands still together, (3).She comes back to the front and into her windmill all in one motion passing her hip two more times as she comes to the front and again at the end for her release. So this girl passes her hip three times in total. A couple times I corrected her with coming past her hip more than three times by bringing her hands together dropping them both seperately past her hip, back together and into the above motions from 1-3. I know that is illegal because the hands can't come apart and together again, but I also believe that the # of passes to the hip allowed is 3?

Can you shed some light on if either of these girls are delivering an illegal pitch? I haven't researched which rule book applies to my area yet, I googled and noted ASA, NAFA, USFA, USSSA, NSA, AFA, but haven't looked yet as to which is for which area. If you know could you let me know that as well.

Thanks Mike
 

May 22, 2008
351
0
NW Pennsylvania
Im not sure I understand you correctly , the way I understand your descriptions, but I will take a stab.

girl 1 doesnt change directions after the windmill starts, but rather puts the ball overhead, then does a backswing & a windmill? Im saying thats a legal pitch.

girl2 if she is passing her hips once going backwards, then once forewards at the start of windmill, then again forewards at release- thats a legal pitch too. If thats not her pitching motion, I dont have a clue how she can be passing her hip 3 times without a double windmill...thats a illegal pitch.

Theres lots of good pitching instructors on here who can set you straight- Im not one of them.
 
Jun 20, 2008
235
0
I have two pitchers each with an issue that I would like addressed by someone that knows the ruling for girls fastpitch. We're in British Columbia and the girls are Squirt level ages 10/11.
GIRL ONE does a change of direction. (1).She puts her hands together, (2).raises them up slightly to about 10:00, (3).then drops them right down still in front of her and (4).then goes into her windmill up and over her head...............She does it all in one quick motion, but does change direction.

GIRL TWO does something very different than the first. (1).She puts her hands together, (2).She bends her body down a bit and passes her hips with the ball and her hands still together, (3).She comes back to the front and into her windmill all in one motion passing her hip two more times as she comes to the front and again at the end for her release. So this girl passes her hip three times in total. A couple times I corrected her with coming past her hip more than three times by bringing her hands together dropping them both seperately past her hip, back together and into the above motions from 1-3. I know that is illegal because the hands can't come apart and together again, but I also believe that the # of passes to the hip allowed is 3?

Can you shed some light on if either of these girls are delivering an illegal pitch? I haven't researched which rule book applies to my area yet, I googled and noted ASA, NAFA, USFA, USSSA, NSA, AFA, but haven't looked yet as to which is for which area. If you know could you let me know that as well.

Thanks Mike
Mike the first pitcher is legal in every rule set that I am fimilar with, the pitch doesn't begin until the hands are seperated, so with the ball in the glove she can change directions...

The best I can tell from your description of girl number two she brings the ball and glove together, bends and passes her hip backwards with the ball still in the glove, then the ball and glove comes back past her hip in the forward direction, then and only then does her hands seperate and she begins her windmill, so after her hands are seperated she begins her windmill and the ball doesn't change directions and she only passes her hip one time, which is allso legal by every rule set I am aware of as again, the pitch begins when the hands are seperated...although she is using alot of motion and energy with this extended windup motion it is from your description legal...
 
Jun 20, 2008
235
0
If it were me and I was working with theese new pitchers I would have them step on the rubber with the ball at one side and glove at the other, then bring the glove over ontop of the ball and then begin the pitch from there...
 
Thanks

Thanks for the info. I've been searching the web for a copy of the pitching rules in the Softball Canada Official Guide and Rule Book, but have not found any sections of that rulebook anywhere. Girl # 1 in my description doesn't start as high as I thought, she just has her hands out from her body at her waiste when she visualizes her pitch. Not that that matters really, the start middle and end of her windup and pitch delivery is the same.

I didn't think any change of motion was considered a change until the pitcher was in the forward part of her motion, which from your responses is the same as my mindset. As long as the hands don't separate, a drop or a pull back is part of her windup and not the forward part of the windmill. I'm still going to go with that unless I find out otherwise from a certified pitching instructor or the official rule book.

Thanks for the reassurance.
 
Aug 21, 2008
838
18
hi mike

where in bc are you? I am coming to New west in Feb, Kelowna in March, and Victoria in April. (I do a lot of clinics in BC).
i just re read what you described. while i have no idea why they would want to do so much pre motion junk, from what you described it sounds 'legal'. however, 'legal' is a far cry from being optimal, easy, and efficient. it sounds like they believe their motions are going to distract the batters. that is fine at a young age, but it will not work as they get older. it sounds like a lot of work to ultimately end up in the same points as people who don`t do as much. so why bother? pitching is like a golf swing..... less is more.



Bill
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
5,751
48
Dallas, Texas
The rules are pretty much the same. The hands have to be together at the beginning of the windup, once the hands separate, they cannot be brought back together. A pitcher can have a back swing of the arm.

NCAA Rules:

10.5 The Windup
The windup phase of the pitch begins when the hands come together and ends when the hands separate. The pitcher may use any windup desired providing she does not, after having taken the signal and bringing her hands together:
10.5.1 Make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering the ball
to the batter.
10.5.2 Separate her hands and then return the ball to both hands.
10.5.3 Stop and change direction more than twice.


NSA:

Sec. 6 A pitcher may use any wind-up desired providing:
a. There is no motion made to pitch without immediately delivering the ball to the batter.
b. A rocker action is not used in which, after having the ball in both hands in the pitching position, the pitcher removes one hand from the ball, takes a backward and forward swing and returns the ball to both hands in front of the body.
c. No wind-up is used in which there is a stop or reversal of the forward motion.
d. There is no more than one revolution of the arm in the windmill pitch. The pitching arm may be dropped to the side and to the rear before starting the windmill motion. The ball does not have to be released the first time past the hip.
e. The pitcher makes no continuous wind-up after taking the forward step which is simultaneous with the release of the ball.
 

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