I/R in the Classroom

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Sep 29, 2014
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Best I could find...

One commentator was crushed commenting on Lisa's mechanics but even though Lisa has forgotten more than I'll ever know about pitching I would definately not use her as a model pitcher for comparison purposes.
 
Nov 8, 2018
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We don't have many good videos of Lisa pitching in a game. A lot of pitchers (such as Finch) were taught that an HE finish was correct. Therefore, when they make teaching videos, they tend to show an HE finish.

If you watch game videos of Finch throwing, you will see pronation of the forearm.



I/R simply means "internal rotation". Internal rotation is anatomical term meaning "rotation toward the middle of the body". We use I/R because it has a defined meaning used by everyone, (Even @DrRiello knows what it means.)

"Whip", on the other hand", has no defined meaning. Every PC in the world says s/he teaches whip, and everyone has their own pet definition.

I/R occurs several time during the pitching motion. The rotation of the shoulders after 12, the closing of the hips, and the pronation of the forearm are all internal rotations.


You are specifically talking about pronation of the forearm. If the forearm does not rotate counterclockwise (from the P's point of view), then there is no internal rotation.


I'm assuming you mean I/R.

There is nothing "automatic" or "natural" about the pitching motion, either baseball or softball. It is all learned.


Totally different? Please get me some of that stuff your smoking.

The two motions are very similar. Sarah is more upright than Jenny. Sarah has the ball more on top of the hand than Jenny at 9. Sarah is *slightly* more closed.

These two motions are hardly "totally" different.[

Glad someone responded here. I just couldn’t. It seams there is a very different interpretation of this forums IR version of pitching and the forearm fire version. I just didn’t want to get into it.
You’re the best sluggers


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Jul 14, 2008
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Nunthia said: “Lisa Fernandez does not turn her hand over on follow through”............Say it ain’t so Joe! Dude you have no clue what it’s all about. If you can’t see that Lisa is moving her forearm/hand from palm up to palm in/down using internal rotation (I/R) then you should probably just avoid the topic.

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Nov 8, 2018
774
63
Nunthia said: “Lisa Fernandez does not turn her hand over on follow through”............Say it ain’t so Joe! Dude you have no clue what it’s all about. If you can’t see that Lisa is moving her forearm/hand from palm up to palm in/down using internal rotation (I/R) then you should probably just avoid the topic.

View attachment 14956

Kinda why I avoided the conversation. Didn’t think they would get it. Ha


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Feb 20, 2012
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I've received so many PM's and Emails about I/R I've decided to speak more about training Internal Rotation, and the progression we use to build a foundation for the underhand throw.

First of all, we all know that grip, stance, posture, wind-up/load and leg drive all contribute to pitching a softball. IMO, none of these are on my list of "absolutes". They are "styles". That is, not every high level pitcher uses exactly the same style any of the above listed requisites of pitching.

The ONLY thing I view as an absolute in pitching is Internal Rotation. Which is why I focus on it so much. If I can teach a young lady/man to "throw" a softball correctly and efficiently, and literally "play catch throwing underhand" as naturally as they would overhand, my job becomes so much easier when it comes to adding "style".

With that in mind, lets talk about I/R as a training method to that end. Using drills that isolate the motions of I/R, and are progressive in nature to involve more and more of the sequence.

First of all, I/R is a "motor skill". Whether natural or learned, it is a skill that can either be taught or enhanced by focusing and training the bio-mechanics and physics that cause the motion to occur, in sequence.........

One of the first things that has to happen for a proper I/R delivery, is that the upper arm (bicep) must be trained that it is the stability point for Internal Rotation. It rotates AND stabilizes vertically. It must be properly positioned in close to the body and vertical in order for the forearm to internally rotate on the tightest radius possible. It ALSO must be trained to pass kinetic energy from the proximal to the distal parts of the sequence. IOW.........The energy must be passed from the arm circle, through the upper arm (proximal part), to the forearm (distal part) and down through the wrist into the fingers and ball.

In order for this transfer to occur, the upper arm must be caused to decelerate to almost a stop when it reaches the stable vertical position close to the side, and then continue forward as a follow through energy dissipation result........That cause begins with Internal Rotation of the forearm "taking the energy" from the arm circle, causing decel of the upper arm........

Take note of these pitchers stable vertical position of the turning upper arm.....And how the elbow stops advancing through the circle for a split second........

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In order to train the upper arm to stabilize, and transfer energy, we need to limit it's ability to do anything but turn away then face forward by responding to the commands of the forearm as it REMAINS in the stable vertical position close to the body.

The quickest way I've found to accomplish this is by using what I call the "lock it in" drill. A drill that keeps the elbow at the side, thereby keeping the upper arm stabilized and vertical and transferring energy to the forearm........

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The student must throw the ball using External Rotation then Internal Rotation/Pronation of the forearm WITHOUT moving the upper arm (elbow) back/away, OR forward past the body until release causes follow through.........It can turn back but it cannot MOVE back.........

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More in the morning as we progress to "Unlock It"..........
Mr. Board Member, I have been coaching now for over 30 years and was taught by the best Hall of Fame pitchers of all time including Eddie Feigner himself and I challenge what you say is not exactly right. When you teach the whip action the I/R as you call it is automatic that your arm will align up on the hip then the forearm fire then the I/R completes but you turn the ball over early and that I believe is not the best way to teach girls. Look at Jenny Finch. Her arm snaps completely across the body without turning her hand over like you do. You are snapping your forearm away from your left hip and I believe the best way is like Finch is doing. I'm 80 years old and if I get the chance I will put myself on this board doing some snap drills into my glove and I sure don't do it like you do. Anyway I decided to give my input on I/R and also say it is not difficult to teach? When you teach the whip you teach I/R.. I will check and see how to put my video on this forum so I can see how much I differ from what you do. Sincerely yours JJ
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,798
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JJ you've been watching too many rise-ball clips from Jenny. Here is a 3 minute video of Jenny Finch throwing for the USA team and doing exactly what you say she doesn't do. She uses Full I/R all the way through to palm down on EVERY SINGLE pitch in this sequence. If you really want a good look fast forward and watch the pitch at 3:09.

On the top right corner of the player you can click the menu and slow it down to 1/2 speed. View it with an open mind, and you'll see exactly what you don't believe happens actually does happen.. I'd bet you throw the same way, you just don't know it.



Mind you, this is the gal who teaches "finish with a high elbow". ;)

Best Regards...….
 
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