How many Pitches can my 8 year old throw per game

[vdubya]

Sluggers, if I may pick your brain a bit... the question was: "how many pitches I should let my 8 year old throw per game?"

The answer of "BOTTOM LINE: No more than 3 innings per game" seems to need some further splainin'. To be fair, the OP didn't mention how long innings tend to run, if they bat the whole lineup or play to 3 outs (sometimes 15 batters drawing full count walks), etc. Nor is there a mention of number of games per day, weekend, or week, etc.

LL baseball got away from using the number of innings yardstick and went to pitch counts with daily/weekly guidelines that factored in days of rest. I know this is different, but how about pinning a number of pitches?

VW

 

[DonnieS]

vdubya, with regard to number of pitches, I dont think there is any magic number. I watch some kids in that age bracket pitching today and they are almost slow pitching the ball in, I remember kids pitching with my dd 6 or 7 years ago and they are bringing speed, no movement pitches, but they were stressing their bodies pretty hard.

With regards to LL, I have no respect for the numbers they pull out of God knows where. Without the hoopla they come in with and then dont require face guards on their batting helmets, unbelievable except I am used to nonsense from Little League and they sure dont disappoint. Safety is not their prime motive, their pitching rules have to do with lowering the level of competition. Do not use their numbers, you are going to have to watch this yourself.

This is something you are going to have to watch your kid work very carefully. We didnt have 8u pitching when my dds were youngsters, if you wanted to pitch at 8, you moved up to 10u early which is what we did.

 

[NWITom]

I am sure your league has rules for pitchers. Our league is 2 innings and that is it.We also have walk rules and coach pitch, so long innings are eliminated. My guess is at 45mph and 8 yrs old her mechanics are not right most of the time. Keep the innings down and work with the mechanics. Speed isn't everything !

 

[sluggers]

I've raised 3 DDs, one of whom became an all-conference D1 pitcher while another was a D3 all-conference basketball player who won an NCAA championship. I've coached at least a thousand girls of all ages in a variety of sports. I've followed the kids I coached after they left my team.

Here is the deal:

A girl's body goes through a fundamental body change about the same time they start their menstrual cycle. Mothers, most of whom never played sports, don't understand how it impacts sports. Fathers don't understand it because they never experienced it.

When the menstrual cycle starts:

(A) A girl's hips become wider than her shoulders.
(B) Growth of the body stops
(C) The bosom gets larger.

On top of that, there are profound changes in the girls attitudes and interests.

Due to the incredible changes that a girl undergoes at puberty, athletic success before puberty has little to do with athletic success after puberty. A girl's success as an athlete has a great deal to do with learning how to manage the brand new, completely re-designed body she gets at puberty. The is especially true for pitchers, who have to compensate for the larger hips and bosom.

Therefore, the purpose of athletics for girls before puberty is to teach them the game and teach them the skills necessary to play the game. (And, of course, learning all those wonderful intangibles that come from playing team sports.)

Because we have no idea how an 8 YOA child is going to develop, that kid should be playing SS, CF, 1B, C as well as pitching. She should be learning the whole game, not just how to stand on a mound and throw a ball to a catcher.

Taking any 10U girl and putting her on the mound for an entire game is senseless. It (a) creates a risk of an overuse injury, (b) it stops her from learning how to play other positions she might like better and be better adapted to and (c) stops other girls from having the opportunity to pitch.

Any coach who would put an 8 YOA girl on the mound for an entire game has ZERO concern about the kids. Therefore, the parents have to step in and control the situation.

 

[vdubya]

Donnie, at least LL instituted a pitch count and it was based on the research and data regarding overuse injuries. What has softball done? In 15 posts from those of us who care, we have not been able to answer the original question. The rhetoric is fine and I don't disaagree with most of it, but if a bunch of relative fanatics and instructors can't get an answer with some teeth, how is the average parent going to get the info?

With regard to facemasks on helmets. I agree it is a good idea due to the relatively rare foul tip that tradjects into the face. The masks have nothing to do with pitched balls hitting faces because the incidence of that approaches zero. If softball cares so much about injury prevention, I wonder why there are not mandatory fielders masks for every player. For every batter that gets a ball to the face, there are thirty fielders who take a bad hop to the chops, eye, etc.

Sluggers, I appreciate your experience and insight and I agree with it. I don't mean to diminish the value of your post, but note that the original question has not yet been answered. I suspect that many hundreds of parents have tried to find an answer to a similar question. My bet is they find conflicting idealistic rhetoric in a variety of places, eventually getting disillusioned or losing interest because a real answer is so evasive...even if for good reasons as brought up here. They simply get tired of chasing a greased pig. So they just decide for themselves, drawing their own conclusion based on the banter. Most probably overpitch, and will likely continue until experts can concur on something relatively concrete. One day this post will be outdated and we'll all be the better for it. Until then...greased pig! VW

 

[vdubya]

Also, I think the typical parent of a 10 year old who asks questions gets a lot of answers like "if she wants to pitch in college, blah blah"

Likewise, parents of 8 year olds get lessons in post puberty pitching.

I understand these are well meaning responses, but I I do think the degree of futuristic projection can turn a lot of people off to the idea of pitching. 10 yo Sally who has pitched for nine months wants some advice for the now...so she can play a few tournaments, not get a scholarship. Her scholarship may be for her abilities in soccer, physics, or the clarinet she'll play for the first time in middle school. Today pitching looks fun. Taking it too seriously too early might lead to fewer interested pitchers which leads to higher pitch counts for the relatively few who take it on. Just thinking out loud. VW

 

[vdubya]

"Taking any 10U girl and putting her on the mound for an entire game is senseless."

Most coaches can't get more than 2 kids interested in the commitment it takes to pitch. I know in my state nearly every team has 2 or at most 3 pitchers. In a typical 5-7 game weekend tournament, they can either pitch their pitchers or pitch the whole team and make a farce of the games with kids losing interest. The other option would be to refrain from any TB until they are older, at which time similar issues are exposed. Maybe they should avoid tournaments and play only double headers. I don't have the answers. Do you?

One answer of course is to develop more pitchers--perhaps even a whole team of them, but then we're back to idealism and not reality. VW

 

[WinThemAll]

I will jump out on a limb.

It will very greatly depending on the player, but I try to limit it to around 80 pitches for 10U in a game per day early in the season. That is not set in stone, but I do try to stay close to it.

I try to carry three pitchers and in pool games try to give them two innings each, which in many 10U games we play with a time limit and/or run rules only go four innings. (I think they might average around 25-30 pitches).

I also have a couple of pitchers who are in the developmental stage--they come to pitching practice and may pitch a little in league. If the situation calls for it, they will get an inning or two in a friendly (double header).

The only time it really becomes an issue is when it is a close quick paced game between two pretty even teams that are getting in all the innings or like a couple of weeks ago with a bad umpire who had a terrible strike zone.

Edit: here is an article that I found that does talk about this for older pitchers.

http://www.softballwest.com/articles/183/

"Overload
Overload is the result of throwing too many pitches during one outing. Ascertaining a pitcher’s maximum pitch count varies by age group, competition level, and a pitcher’s individual traits (such as arm strength, arm fatigue, arm soreness, etc). A reasonable amount of work for one pitcher may be extreme for another.

"As a rule of thumb, I would recommend that pitchers don’t throw more than 120 pitches in a single workout or session," Werner says."

 

[DonnieS]

Donnie, at least LL instituted a pitch count and it was based on the research and data regarding overuse injuries. ?

With regard to facemasks on helmets. I agree it is a good idea due to the relatively rare foul tip that tradjects into the face. The masks have nothing to do with pitched balls hitting faces because the incidence of that approaches zero. If softball cares so much about injury prevention, I wonder why there are not mandatory fielders masks for every player. For every batter that gets a ball to the face, there are thirty fielders who take a bad hop to the chops, eye, etc.

VW

I completely disagree that LL used research and data to come up with a pitch count - the pitch count was completely designed to level out competition and take away the advantage of a good pitcher. I would bet money on it. I have watched LL from the local yokel stuff here all the way to the LL world series and very few if any of those teams would be competitive with decent travel teams.

'relatively rate foul tip' - 'pitched balls hitting faces' I have coached from t-ball to 18u and have seen plenty of cases where the mask has saved teeth and noses. I do not see the 30 bad hops ratio to 1 ball in the face at bat, not even close. Some people, players and coaches feel that the mask on the market now obstruct the view of the players. I have had fielders who continously got hit in the face - I would replace them with experienced athletes and in that same position, those hits in the face went to zero.

 

[WinThemAll]

I did find this study. . .

Review of the Windmill Pitch: Biomechanics and Injuries

Haven't read it all yet.