How exactly does committing/signing work

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Oct 4, 2018
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Many schools started going test optional a few years ago because they felt a 3 hour exam on a Saturday morning should not define you as a student. During and after 2020, many schools went away from using them because students couldn't take them. Now, schools are beginning to use them again because they're the great equalizer.

Because grades can vary from school district to school district, let alone state to state, you can't rely on them alone. For better or worse, the SAT/ACT is the same exam everywhere you take them. So, while they may not require them, they use them to determine scholarships.

Personally, I hate them. My niece got rejected from top schools a few years back because she isn't a great standardized test taker. She finished 4th out of 600 students in her HS class, and she had a 104 weighted average. But she struggled with a 1290 on her SAT.

I'm torn. I'm very good at standardized tests. Even when I don't know a question, I have a knack for knowing which answer is right. Not sure how to explain it really. Kind of like I'm thinking about what they're wanting you to know and that means this answer (English) or as a math major just knowing what numbers/fractions tend to appear in certain calculations more often.

However, I agree that a 3 hour exam on Saturday morning shouldn't define you as a student.
 
Oct 4, 2018
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Honestly though not all programs get the players they want. You just don't hear about the football studs who have to go to community college to start because their grades don't qualify them for the university. This is why there are so many "football factory" community colleges out there - look at Hutchinson Community College and Dodge City Community College, both in Kansas and see how many of those players spend a year getting their grades up and then transfer into Power5. It happens more than you think.

There was a story about Haley Cruse, great Oregon player. Did you know that she originally verbally committed to Stanford? However, when the time came for admissions guess who didn't get accepted to Stanford? So there are instances where students, even STUDS, don't get accepted. There were some other issues going on with the Stanford softball program which also probably contributed but she was still rejected due to not being "academically eligible" according to admissions. Does it happen often? No, but it does happen. Since Haley was a stud and played for the right travel team with connections they knew Mike White who coached at Oregon at the time and the rest as they say "is history".

True. I watched the football and basketball "documentaries" on NetFlix about the Community Colleges. Of course many studs just can't make it in some universities.
 
Jun 8, 2016
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Is IQ important?
I am sure there is some positive correlation with IQ and academic success, and then some positive correlation with academic success and success in "life" (if that is what important referred to in your question) but things like willingness to learn, intellectual curiosity, perseverance, etc are probably a lot more important in general. It is like MLB. Your IQ probably sets your ceiling. The HOF'ers have everything going for them, including great athletic ability. Similarly you probably won't find a Physics Nobel prize winner with an average IQ. With that said you can have a wildly successful (and more importantly happy) life without being a genius...
 
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LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
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NY
Edit: Actually I think I misunderstood your first sentence. I thought you were referring to how they should score based upon how well they do in school when maybe you were just talking about getting a percent grade for their SAT score..
That's what I was going for, Pattar. It's really only useful in comparing the two different tests.
 

LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
2,838
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NY
It's an unpopular opinion for some, but the "doesn't test well" is a cop-out,
I can't begin explaining how bad this take is, but I am unsurprised.

I see hundreds of students every single year in my college planning business, and the standardized test scores vary widely among them. Some people take more time than others to get the correct answer, but because it's a timed exam, they get penalized. I've also seen many students with 1400+ SAT scores with lower grades than the test indicates. They're the classic underachievers. Maybe they just don't do their homework or are lazy.

As an employer, I'd rather have a job applicant with high grades with many activities than high SAT scores and lower grades.

And grades don't make the person, either. Some of the most successful people I know don't have college degrees. They're business owners and entrepreneurs with drive. They don't need a piece of paper to tell them what they're worth, and they certainly don't need a standardized exam to tell them they're smart.
 
May 20, 2015
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First - sorry for hijacking this thread.

Do I think one test is the "be all end all" - no. Do I think that test does have some intrinsic value - yes. There are basic concepts on that test that high school students should know.

Valid question - as an educator how do you determine if someone has mastered the knowledge needed to pass the course? I'm not an educator so please know I'm asking this purely for my own knowledge. I know the experience my daughter has had at her school - it's not a rigorous school. It is what it is - we live in a very diverse area and I understand not every kid is invested in their education. I get it. So I guess my question is - how do you know kids are coming out of the school with the knowledge that was supposed to be taught. (we can argue whether what is taught should be taught another time lol). I don't care about ranking schools. I don't even care about ranking students (because my daughter's CLASS rank at her high school isn't indicative of what it would be at, say, my son's previous high school).

I know anecdotally one person's experience is not everyone's so I will stop with my opinions after my last explanation of daughters experience. That type of test prep you speak of didn't work that way for my kid. It just didn't. She doesn't have "test anxiety". She took it 6 times and was comfortable with the process. We did all that "extra" stuff. The first "tutor" we had - had a whole list of "tricks" and if the test says this then it is this answer. She actually did worse after working with that tutor for 8 weeks ironically. The second tutor heard through the "test prep" grapevine about daughter's first experience and took my daughter on for free. He actually taught her the math concepts she was missing. She has no problems with English and Vocab. Scored a 700 & if we had focused on that with her probably would have increased that a little. It was math that was the focus (she's going to a STEM college for goodness sake) and finally after all that work and ALL those tests and ALL that money (for the first tutor and $ x6 tests) she improved her score the last 20 points she needed. It took her 8 weeks of tutoring to get a 20 point increase.

generally speaking, multiple pieces of evidence that encompass multiple types of assessment......something like math is a little more black and white, so it might just be multiple pieces of evidence......but you try and hit multiple types of assessment, so it just isn't the one and done test

in terms of how do i know how to compare one school to another - i don't, that's not my forte.......i do know that its what college admissions offices do for a living, and they do it pretty well......we did work with admissions officers from a variety of schools (community colleges, NESCAC schools, in state & out of state), and they assured us that as long as we could explain how our system worked, how we built out transcript, how we arrived at the grades we did (we are a 1-4 scale, proficiency based system.....our kids have never known a letter grade or a 1-100 scale from kindergarten on), then they would figure it out.......things like accreditation(s) and other certifications and what not can help as well......but they are pros, it's what they do


i am glad the money grab is finally going away......colleges don't need the SAT or ACT to find their students, and i don't think a high or low score is any indication of future success (i did very well on the old, old SAT back in 1988......and I flunked out of state school my first time through college)
 
Oct 4, 2018
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I figured they did and I hope they do actually take that into consideration. DD's school weights AP at .05 and honors at .025. Pretty worthless IMO, however, obviously she has taken a lot of those courses because, well, regular classes just aren't the same at her school. However are the AP and Honors courses the same level at the schools as well?? No. Even with a kid that didn't test great I still feel there is necessity in the standard tests.

Yeah, my nephew is a rock star student, but is at a school that offers about half the AP courses as other schools. He took every AP course he could, but got dinged because his high school didn't rank as strong as other ones. Kind of bad luck on that one.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
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It took her 8 weeks of tutoring to get a 20 point increase.

Here's the thing, and you'll never know. She might have gotten a 20 point increase without the tutoring, simply by it being:

A) A different test with different questions
B) Slept better the night before
C) In the time between tests she learned a few things in school
D) A and C, but not B
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
I can't begin explaining how bad this take is, but I am unsurprised.

I see hundreds of students every single year in my college planning business, and the standardized test scores vary widely among them. Some people take more time than others to get the correct answer, but because it's a timed exam, they get penalized. I've also seen many students with 1400+ SAT scores with lower grades than the test indicates. They're the classic underachievers. Maybe they just don't do their homework or are lazy.

As an employer, I'd rather have a job applicant with high grades with many activities than high SAT scores and lower grades.

And grades don't make the person, either. Some of the most successful people I know don't have college degrees. They're business owners and entrepreneurs with drive. They don't need a piece of paper to tell them what they're worth, and they certainly don't need a standardized exam to tell them they're smart.

I can't fully explain how little sense this makes in the context of this discussion. You're cherry picking my words and building strawmen. Whoever said that, as an employer, you have to make some kind of "choice" between high grades and high SAT scores? We're talking about getting into college. With a reasonable bit of preparation, one follows the other.

Students have to take tests once in college. If you're a STEM major, some of those tests can be pretty difficult, and most all of them are timed. If you're in a major that eventually requires a professional licensing exam, every one that comes to mind is more involved and difficult than an SAT/ACT. You'd better be ready for it.
 
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