Houston Astros and the limits of sign stealing

[sluggers]

In case someone has not been following baseball, the Houston Astros stole signs on their way to a World Series' Championship by using a camera located in CF. Someone in the Astros organization would zoom in on the catcher and figure out the signs used by the other team's catcher. That information would be relayed to Astros players, supposedly by banging a garbage can. There is some evidence that Astro players used a pager attached to their body, so once the sign was located, the batter would be "buzzed" if the next pitch would be a fastball.

Anyway...

The whole Astros sign stealing issue gets to the ethics of sign stealing, and how it relates to youth sports. How far is too far? And, what age group?

These were my ethical guidelines when I coached:

In college, HS, 16U and 18U ball, it seems that "the gloves are off". It is fair for coaches to steal signs or "tells" and relay that info to the batter. Basically, the idea is that the pitcher and catcher are "old enough to know better" and should know how to hide signs. Pitchers should be hiding disguising pitches.

For 14U, it is fair for the coach to point out "tells" to his batters. The coach is teaching batters how to anticipate the pitch by carefully looking at a pitcher's motion and the pitcher's tendencies. However, a coach stealing signs is off-limits. (One of my pet peeves is a 30+ YOA adult bragging how they picked signs from a 14YOA catcher.)

For 12U, the coach should not do anything about sign stealing. The kids should be focused on hitting, base running, throwing, etc., not trying to steal signs.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

If it doesn't violate a rule in the rule book then it's fair game.

People can take their unwritten rules and get lost.

 

[inumpire]

Stealing signs is one thing and been part of the games for years. But to use cameras and electronic devices to steal them is completely absurd. And if you think it is OK, you have your head in the sand.......hopefully you get lost and are not coaching young players!!!

 

[corlay]

“If you're not cheating, you're not trying.”
- Mark Grace

 

[bmakj]

“If you're not cheating, you're not trying.”
- Mark Grace

hate that phrase/saying. how about substitute stealing, lying, etc, would you be OK with it. yes, it is just a game/entertainment, but games are where children learn life lessons.

if youre cheating, youre cheating.

stealing the signs from dugout, 2nd base is fair game. using cameras, signalling devices, etc. is bush league.

even money the Strohs set a all time record for getting HBP this year. penalty was way too light. should have been substantial (like 25-50 % of years salaries for players involved) fines. the penalty incurred was a joke and will in no way deter players from doing it again.

 

[JumboJack]

In case someone has not been following baseball, the Houston Astros stole signs on their way to a World Series' Championship by using a camera located in CF. Someone in the Astros organization would zoom in on the catcher and figure out the signs used by the other team's catcher. That information would be relayed to Astros players, supposedly by banging a garbage can. There is some evidence that Astro players used a pager attached to their body, so once the sign was located, the batter would be "buzzed" if the next pitch would be a fastball.

Anyway...

The whole Astros sign stealing issue gets to the ethics of sign stealing, and how it relates to youth sports. How far is too far? And, what age group?

These were my ethical guidelines when I coached:

In college, HS, 16U and 18U ball, it seems that "the gloves are off". It is fair for coaches to steal signs or "tells" and relay that info to the batter. Basically, the idea is that the pitcher and catcher are "old enough to know better" and should know how to hide signs. Pitchers should be hiding disguising pitches.

For 14U, it is fair for the coach to point out "tells" to his batters. The coach is teaching batters how to anticipate the pitch by carefully looking at a pitcher's motion and the pitcher's tendencies. However, a coach stealing signs is off-limits. (One of my pet peeves is a 30+ YOA adult bragging how they picked signs from a 14YOA catcher.)

For 12U, the coach should not do anything about sign stealing. The kids should be focused on hitting, base running, throwing, etc., not trying to steal signs.

Overall not a bad code to live by IMO. If a pitcher is tipping pitches and the team picks up on it then shame on the pitcher.

I used to face a guy in HS that would grunt when he threw a fastball. Since he only threw a FB, curve and occasional CU it was pretty easy figure out what was coming. Never understood why his coaches didn't point this out to him.

 

[The Man In Blue]

“If you're not cheating, you're not trying.”
- Mark Grace

Wasn't a big fan of his when we played.

 

[ROC 33]

What about the Reds pitcher, Trevor Bauer, who was intentionally tipping pitches the other night just to prove a point.

 

[Cannonball]

Ok, so I broke the code of every baseball coach in our area. I had a "book" on all of them. I knew the signs they gave to the catcher. I knew the signs they gave to the hitters. I had it all. When we won state one year, the kids asked me how long it would take us to break those coach's signs. I told them I already had them.

The decision you need to make then is do you use them? I am not sure you always use them. For example, if we were playing a below average team, no way. Believe it or not, if we were playing a great team, I didn't like giving them. Pretty much, if you were a jerk or made it a habit of embarrassing kids or teams of coaches I really liked, you were fair game.

 

[Westwind]

DD was a sign stealing machine from 10u on. I don’t know where she got it, she didn’t get it from me.

When she plays 3rd she always peeks at the 3rd base coach. She says they really look irritated when they catch her looking at them. I personally don’t get that. I think she is actually looking for tells. I’m surprised how well she predicts bunts even with wristbands.

I love players being involved that way personally. It’s not like they are using high def cameras or something, they are working out a set of facts with their eyes and their brain... On the other hand, I think tb coaches should have bigger things to worry about than trying to steal signs.

People get sign stealing confused with looking for anomalies, (tells). If I’m coaching a tb game and see an anomaly , I’m communicating it to the player. I want them to see it for themselves. I want them to observe and learn when and when not to attach meaning to what they see. If I can teach a teenage player the concept of observing human behavior and noticing anomalies of human behavior, that is something that will help them for the rest of their work and personal lives.