Hit the Back of the Cage? I Don’t Think So

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Ken Krause

Administrator
Admin
May 7, 2008
3,911
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Mundelein, IL
Emma cage at contact


This isn’t actually the topic I’d planned on writing about today, but an email hit my mailbox this morning that I thought was worth sharing. Especially since many of us have moved inside for the winter.

The author was Mike Ryan of Fastball USA, a facility and program located within fairly easy driving distance of my house. I don’t really know Mike, but I definitely know his brother Pat (shout out, dude) who used to coach for their softball program and has raised some pretty darned good fastpitch ballplayers himself.

Anyway, Mike’s email was talking about how deceiving a batting cage can be when judging the success of hits. Here’s an excerpt from the email:

Most balls hit on a line drive in a cage are actually ground balls.

You need to aware of this, otherwise you will look like a powerful

hitter in the cage, and go outside and be a ground ball machine.

👉
For example,
in our batting cage at Fastball USA we figured out when the L screen is 35 feet away, a ball that hits the top of the screen is roughly at a 8-10 degree launch angle. 10 degrees if it makes it over.

Most hits in MLB happen between a 10-30 degree launch angle.

So common sense tells us, any ball flight below the top of the L screen produces a ground ball in a game.

We also figured out that if a player hit a ball to the top of the net directly over our L screen it was roughly a 20 degree launch angle.

via GIPHY

I’m so glad to hear someone else say this. Fastpitch softball still seems to labor under some old beliefs about hitting, including the idea that a batted ball that hits the top of the cage instead of the back is bad.

In fact, I know players who have been dinged/yelled at/cajoled or whatever because their hits were going to the top of the cage toward the back. While I appreciate Mike doing the math to confirm it (evidence is always good) I don’t think you have to be a geometry expert to figure out that a hard-hit ball that hits the top of the net at around 40-50 feet is pretty likely to travel the distance needed to make it close to or over a fence 200 to 220 feet away from home. Or even less if you’re on a shorter field.

Balls going over the fence are good things because, well, they’re really hard to defend. And they produce runs – as many as 4 with one hit.

Which means that if you’re rewarding hitters for hitting the back of the net (even if it’s low) and punishing them for hitting the top, you’re not making your team better. You’re actually killing your ability to score runs and win games.

Ok, that’s the long ones. But what about the balls that are only up to or even a little in front of that screen set at 35 feet?

Surely those must result in can of corn fly balls? Here’s what Mike had to say about that (and I know, don’t call you Shirley):

If the ball hits the top of the net about 5 feet in front of the screen you’re on about a 30 degree launch angle.

Remember that most MLB hits top out at 30 degrees, so you’re still in great shape. He then goes on to say that the lowest you want to hit the ball is the top of the L screen, and the highest is about 5 feet in front.

Of course, if you have your screen set closer to simulate faster pitching (as I usually do) that visual will change. But if you mark off roughly where 30 feet is in the cage you’ll have a pretty good idea of whether that contact was going to be an extra-base hit or an easy out.

So there you go. If you have a girl consistently hitting the top of the net 30-50 out, don’t punish her. Encourage her. She could wind up being a big bat for you next season.

By the way, if you want to see more from Mike, he posts at the Baseball Education Center. This particular article isn’t up there yet but I imagine it will be at some point.

I got on his mailing list through Paul Reddick Baseball, so I imagine if you sign up for Paul’s emails you’ll start getting Mike’s too. (I didn’t see any direct way to sign up with Mike; maybe Mike can comment on how to get more info from him directly.)

Mike’s stuff is oriented toward baseball and boys, but as we all know a swing is a swing so lots of value there for the parents and coaches of fastpitch softball players.


More...
 
Aug 5, 2015
85
8
Not the best article.
1) A well hit ball at 8-10 degrees is not a ground ball...
2) Line drives are still better than fly balls. You're definitely not "killing your ability to score runs and win games" by rewarding players hitting them.
3) Yes, homeruns are great, and a lot of homeruns are fly balls. The problem is that fly balls that stay in the park are very often outs, while mishit groundballs and especially line drives still result in hits/ROEs fairly often.
 
Jul 26, 2016
108
18
While I agree with that back of the cage isn't ideal I think that is slightly overblown. Top back of the cage is about 10 degrees or so so back of the cage are 0 to 10.

A lot of those are grounders (depending on EV, 5 degrees at 100 might be a low liner and 12 at 55 a grounder) but last year in mlb the league hit .486 0 to 10 and even 0 to 5 .420.


I prefer high liners about 10 to 20 degrees but this back of the cage are outs is way overblown, low liners and even Hard one hop grounders are hits very often hits even at the highest level, the ones which are always outs are choppers.

Mlb minus 5 to 0 degrees: .305
Mlb under minus 5: .151

That means between minus 5 and plus 10 there are tons of hits (400 avg in mlb), the real issues with those is that they are 90% singles which plays a much bigger role in pro ball than in youth ball.

I teach high liners to older kids but a kid who consistently hits the ball at -5 to 10 will have a super high batting average regardless of the level, just the number of XBH is very limited (just a few down the line doubles and else singles).
 
Dec 11, 2010
4,713
113
The “Measure” app on iPhone/iPad can help to shoot target lines for whatever cage situation you have. It works great.

Howard Carrier recommended something like 12-26 degrees. He was thinking about this before anyone else was. That used to be our target angles but we increased to 35 degrees max to try to increase homeruns. Against high school and average competition the higher launch angles result in more homers and burned outfielders but if you are playing top competition I think it leads to more caught balls.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
My question would be, how long is the cage? Our HS cage is 70 feet long. When do certain drills, we have them hit one of those old Jugs strike zone net protectors. I would estimate that if you hit it where we ask players to hit it, those balls would clear the infield on most diamonds.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
Ken, I am not a doubter but rather think in terms of my own experience and what I teach. For example, if a player hits a ball where we have marked that target I mentioned previously, that mark is approximately 6 feet off of the ground at 65 feet. (70 foot cage.) That them would mean it is 5 feet beyond 3B/1b and at a height of 6 feet. IMO, that ball gets to the outfield in the air. No doubt the article you linked was written by people a lot smarter than I.
 
Last edited:

Ken Krause

Administrator
Admin
May 7, 2008
3,911
113
Mundelein, IL
CB. the problem is the back of the cage represents center field, not the left field or right field line. So that ball that's 6 feet off the ground at 65 feet still has roughly another 20 feet to go before it crosses second base. The ball may make it to the grass on a fly, but depending on the depth of the infield just barely. So in effect you have a ground ball when it gets to the outfield. Probably drops in for a single if the middle infielders aren't playing up the middle, which is fine. But...

If that's all your team can hit, your opponents can move their outfield in, cutting off the angles and possibly throwing runners out at second base. You're also going to lose out on anything that used to fall in for a bloop because a pulled-in outfield can maybe get to more of those balls.

Of course, it isn't all launch angle. The ball also has to be hit hard or it's going to be caught. But if you can hit the ball hard and deep, you'll get a lot more extra base hits on-average, and score more runs as a result.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
Not the best article.
1) A well hit ball at 8-10 degrees is not a ground ball...
2) Line drives are still better than fly balls. You're definitely not "killing your ability to score runs and win games" by rewarding players hitting them.
3) Yes, homeruns are great, and a lot of homeruns are fly balls. The problem is that fly balls that stay in the park are very often outs, while mishit groundballs and especially line drives still result in hits/ROEs fairly often.

THIS...totally agree.

I have seen it repeatedly...a kid hits her first home run, and she is now trying to jack everything into the air instead of focusing on hitting the ball hard. As a result, she's missing completely, or popping up. A ground ball in the cage is most certainly one on the field, but a head-high liner is getting through unless it's hit right to an infielder. Yeah...ideally, we want that hard hit ball over the infielders, but a player who repeatedly hits the ball hard, regardless of where it goes, will be successful more often than not.

I supplement the cage with outdoor BP (front toss) on a softball field or something close. We evaluate where the hit went, and have simulated "games" that focus on successful hits vs probable outs. However, the emphasis is always on the quality of contact vs achieving a particular launch angle. The HR balls happen, but it's not the goal.
 
Sep 3, 2013
113
43
Illinois
Depends on the player. A strong girl with an avg EV of 70+, I would suggest working on launch angle. If are not strong enough, you don't want to hit fly balls as they will result in outs.
 

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