Hit and run strategies

[RichK]

Context: 18U/high school age. Tough to steal. Sacrifice bunt execution is fine, but would like some additional options to "make things happen."

Questions: do you use hit and run as core part of offensive strategy? What do you tell runner? What do you tell hitter?

I'm most interested in: What are best situations and in particular ball-strike counts to execute it?

TKS

 

[Doug Romrell]

With a hit-n-run or bunt-n-run.... doesn't the runner take off on the pitch and watch to make sure the ball is actually hit down as opposed to pop up? And, I'm thinking the person hitting/bunting would need to be very good at making contact.

The insights that come in on this should be interesting.

Further, you mentioned, "Tough to steal." Isn't there a higher success rate with delayed steals with smart and fast runners than with straight steals?

 

[RichK]

Hey Doug. At the levels of 18U PGF we are playing catchers and teams eliminate most steals unless the runner is extremely quick, we've found. Can't remember the last time I saw a successful delayed steal. Teams don't tend to fall asleep.

I coach third base, and beyond having the runner do a quick glance at the plate to try to see contact (and the coach having a call of "red!" to get back on a pop-up), I'm trying to get a better idea of when to call it, and frankly, if it's worth the risk.

I try to get a good feel of when a pitcher is throwing strikes. Ie, if they waste a lot of pitches, I try to get a good count, 2-0, etc, so the batter has a solid shot at contact. I also try not to do first pitches, because teams tend to be watching runners more closely, calling outside/high pitches to give catchers a better shot, etc.

Any other suggestions appreciated. TKS.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Not to veer off your original post, with regards to delayed steals, I think they are under-utilized as something that can stir the pot a bit.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

With regards to a bunt and run for me it depends on where the 1B/3B is playing. If they are playing back my runner has the green light to go on down angled bunts (unless it's bunted at the pitcher (fail)). At that point it's just a foot race between the runner and the fielder. If the fielders are well schooled in glove flips and bare hand tosses to the catcher we will take note.

If the 1B/3B is playing up the runner has to wait for release assuming the fielder fields it cleanly. If the defense doesn't field it cleanly the 3B runner needs to start back peddling to third as they are liable to get put out on the SS sneaking in from behind (the defense will eat the ball or pump fake to first and then try to get the runner at third).

There is a little more to it, but those are the main points.

On a suicide squeeze all rules are off and the runner goes at release. If the bunt fails to materialize they retreat to third and hope for the best.

 

[KCPRK]

Not to veer off your original post, with regards to delayed steals, I think they are under-utilized as something that can stir the pot a bit.

IMHO this only works up to a certain skill level. If we tried this mentality of delayed steals at the 18A/Gold level in my area wed be thrown out a high percentage of the time. Factor in if this is your mentality opposing coaches will know it and its easy to bait these strategies into outs.

There comes a time when you should be able to make 2 throws and catches without error 99.9% of the time especially at 30 or 60 feet.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

IMHO this only works up to a certain skill level. If we tried this mentality of delayed steals at the 18A/Gold level in my area wed be thrown out a high percentage of the time. Factor in if this is your mentality opposing coaches will know it and its easy to bait these strategies into outs.

There comes a time when you should be able to make 2 throws and catches without error 99.9% of the time especially at 30 or 60 feet.

Here's the rub ..... you are suggesting that the delayed steal is most effective at the lower levels ..... and it is at the lower levels where a catcher throw-down to 2B is most inaccurate.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Not to veer off your original post, with regards to delayed steals, I think they are under-utilized as something that can stir the pot a bit.

Anyone else use a walking lead off from third base?

 

[riseball]

Not to veer off your original post, with regards to delayed steals, I think they are under-utilized as something that can stir the pot a bit.

Runners on 2nd & 3rd my catchers will throw down to 2nd to get a runner taking a big lead. We hope the runner on 3rd tries something cute. Delayed steals will only rarely work against us. However, if they are viable for a team they are certainly an effective tool. If you can, I say use them to abuse them!

Last weekend my DD's team hosted some pretty good travel teams to prepare for the start of their Fall season. Saw a few things common in travel ball that just will not fly at the upper levels. Saw a very fast runner on 1st try to take 3rd when a slapper laid down a bunt. The slapper was thrown out by at least a step and the runner going to 3rd was out by several steps.

As the game gets faster some things just will not work. Other things will only then start to work. You have to coach to the appropriate level of your talent and the competition. How many times have you seen a HS team trying to execute like a top tier college team? It is just plain silly. However, there are some things in HS that you can get away with that are extremely effective. In 10U I have seen teams that can bunt small ball another team to death putting 4-5 runs on the board without hitting the ball out of the infield. Use what works for you. Remember that if it is stupid and it works it isn't stupid!

 

[Doug Romrell]

Anyone else use a walking lead off from third base?

That's what I advocate, against the opinion of my assistant. It's not a slow walk, but I want them off just a little late and moving forward as they reach their third step as the ball reaches the plate. Then, if the ball is hit down they are already moving forward.