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High Level Throwing mechanics

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
253
28
SE Wisconsin
Been using basic Wasserman water bottle drill and other cues. Looking to understand what to work on firstly to avoid injury, secondly speed/accuracy (if they can be considered together.) Have also looked at Chris O'Leary's information as far as having the forearm at or almost to vertical at foot plant. He states that is one of two keys to being injury free. The first being do not point ball at second base aka power 'T'.



Including the Wasserman information and the O'Leary info, my thoughts would be (in simple terms - and i know this is may not be perfect, but at least want to make sure we are started in the right direction, unless getting halfway is worse than not starting at all):

1)As front leg starts to step, draw back upper arm keeping below shoulder (extended forearm for outfielders and elbow bent for infield/catchers) i dont know the anatomical planes to use, but i see this more pinching the scaps (draw back bow and arrow) than thumbs down and around inverted W
2)as front leg starts to externally rotate, Keeping upper arm below shoulder start to rotate forearm vertical(water bottle drill examples) keeping ball facing 3rd base (assuming a right handed pitch location)
3) as foot plant occurs, torso starts to activate and the feel of the ball (water bottle) dropping behind the head, torso turns, elbow leads up and forward, forearm follows up and to release.

As far as my problems, is this basic set up correct, and when does each timing queue happen and how far out and back of the head should the ball get when the 'water bottle' action happens?

i have seen a few videos of Austin and others doing this, but have never heard the location behind the head identified. I have used this for myself and found the feel to be a loopy drop and whip behind my head, almost touching the back of my head. Not sure it should be that close. I do know it took away all my elbow paid, but did see some discomfort in the shoulder.

I know there are many more things to address here, but like i said, want to at least start down the path. I know the many other work outs and drills help achieve this, but just wanted to make sure I understood what the result should be.

The video is my DD 13yo, first year 14U. Had elbow pain at 10U, worked on water bottle drill and it helped because i think we were doing the ball to second and the power T as the go to.

Any thoughts and suggestions welcome.




http://youtu.be/8Lxyw2nfbY4
 

rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
8,810
63
Not here.
This isn't right and would be part of the problem for me:

the O'Leary info,
And the other part of the problem.
Does your DD play outfield? If so...yeah that is the mechanics(elbow wise) for a throw from the outfield to home(not lower body):

Infield not the throwing mechanics I'd use. JMHO DD is being over coached as far as how to throw. An all arm throw with no support from the lower body. No wonder her elbow hurts.
Follow the stripes on the pants for the problem.
 
Last edited:

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
253
28
SE Wisconsin
Thanks for the input.

Firstly, what is the GIF software you use? i only looked a bit, but curious to find an easy one to use.

Yes, she has played outfield, but not certain any instruction has been specific to either outfield or infield. As far as elbow hurting, it does not hurt based on the form in the GIF above, it used to hurt when elbow did not lead, and the forearm was at a right angle the whole time.


As we work on trying to follow Austin Wasserman, do you agree with what he teaches, and if not what would you change. If you do agree, I am curious as to his drills that start with the ball right behind the head and throwing from that position(disregarding any other torso/lower half motion.)

Should DD get her hand back to that position right behind the head? On the outfielder GIF you posted, I am seeing the arm pulled back quite a bit (same position as a free weight bench press) with a slight bend of the elbow and the torque of the lower body helps externally rotate arm, but the ball stays relatively distant from the head, not right behind head.

just trying to figure out the right drills/queues to tell her. As i look at her throw now, she keeps her upper arm close to her head, and seems to snap down on the release. Thanks.
 
Nov 18, 2015
712
43
Found this article by Austin Wasserman on thoracic extension: https://www.highlevelthrowing.com/high-level-throwing-dont-force-thoracic-extension/

The elbow is supposed to lead - but it should still stay mostly behind the shoulder. The angles aren’t perfect, but compare how far in front your daughter’s elbow is compared to Harper - it hides her head. If you were to see Harper from the same side angle, you’d probably see much more of his head.

There doesn’t appear to be much stretch across the shoulders, (possibly caused by inefficient lower-half mechanics), so the rear shoulder “stalls”, which allows the elbow to get too far out in front.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
253
28
SE Wisconsin
Found this article by Austin Wasserman on thoracic extension: https://www.highlevelthrowing.com/high-level-throwing-dont-force-thoracic-extension/

The elbow is supposed to lead - but it should still stay mostly behind the shoulder. The angles aren’t perfect, but compare how far in front your daughter’s elbow is compared to Harper - it hides her head. If you were to see Harper from the same side angle, you’d probably see much more of his head.

There doesn’t appear to be much stretch across the shoulders, (possibly caused by inefficient lower-half mechanics), so the rear shoulder “stalls”, which allows the elbow to get too far out in front.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree, that is the video of Wasserman with his shirt off I was looking for. The looping action I speak of is very prevalent in this video and he seems to really get that extension and get the elbow up after the 'water bottle drop' behind his head and whips high. My DD keeps everything low and close and tight. Any drills to best address this?
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
253
28
SE Wisconsin
Found this article by Austin Wasserman on thoracic extension: https://www.highlevelthrowing.com/high-level-throwing-dont-force-thoracic-extension/

The elbow is supposed to lead - but it should still stay mostly behind the shoulder. The angles aren’t perfect, but compare how far in front your daughter’s elbow is compared to Harper - it hides her head. If you were to see Harper from the same side angle, you’d probably see much more of his head.

There doesn’t appear to be much stretch across the shoulders, (possibly caused by inefficient lower-half mechanics), so the rear shoulder “stalls”, which allows the elbow to get too far out in front.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is the position that intrigues me and was one of the main motions my DD was working on. Seems excessive. But I think with my DD she has other movements with truck and legs to work on first that will probably help her overall issues.

WassCapture.jpg
 
Nov 18, 2015
712
43
This is the position that intrigues me and was one of the main motions my DD was working on. Seems excessive....
I agree - and considered referencing that in my original post - somewhere in the article, Austin acknowledges (and I’m paraphrasing, not quoting) his “extreme flexibility”. While it’s good to see what a full range of motion looks like - it can sometimes make it difficult to translate (transpose?) that same movement pattern to a youth. Or to a 40-something Dad with a shoulder impingement. :)

Focusing too much on getting the ball that far behind the head could unintentionally lead to an emphasis on using the elbow as a power source. As has been mentioned in other throwing threads - the arm should unwind (“descend a spiral staircase”) from the position behind the head. I think when the elbow gets too far in front, the stress on the elbow increases b/c it becomes a primary, rather than supporting, source of power. In short, elbow in front creates a shorter kinetic chain. Elbow “following” keeps the kinetic chain longer (i.e. more efficient).

Please correct me if I’ve got any of this wrong!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nov 25, 2012
1,035
38
Texas
Kinematic Sequence

The Kinematic Sequence: Transfer of momentum from segment to segment up the chain

Rotational velocity is mapped to each segment so that:

Green = peak velocity

[video=youtube_share;on0BWNFTPK4]https://youtu.be/on0BWNFTPK4[/video]


***All credit for this work goes to Anthony Brady MS, CSCS

Anthony Brady MS, CSCS [MENTION=13350]baseball[/MENTION]Freak_9 on Twitter!

I am not hear to promote Anthony (never met him and just stumbled across this a couple days ago). However, I believe credit should be given when credit is due thus the reason I am posting his name, twitter feed, etc.
 

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