Hiding the Grip

[ArmWhip]

In the recent backswing thread the subject of hiding the grip came up. I usually don't address this until I start teaching spins, or sometimes the changeup. I will frequently spend some time catching for my pitchers (in full gear if necessary). I want to see how the ball spins and get a look from the batter's perspective. If I see the pitcher showing the grip to the point where it tips the pitch I will make some suggestions.

I want the pitcher to see what the hitter sees so that they understand the problem and hopefully find a solution they are comfortable with. I first started using this method at a facility that had an office with big picture window, now I suggest that it be done at home. During the daytime a sliding glass door or large window can serve as a mirror if you stand outside. At night, indoors with the lights on, just about any window can can serve as a mirror. I ask them to stand in the position they take on the mound, with a ball, facing a large door or window and look at their reflection so they can see what the hitter sees. At this point I suggest they try; ball in glove, hide the ball with glove or turn the hand/fingers so the different grips aren't detectable. Then start and go through their motion to see if they can come up with a method of keeping the hitters from seeing their different grips. When they get an idea of something that might fix the problem we work on it at the next lesson.

One little tip, after a near miss at the office window I now give them a Jugs Lite Flite foam ball to use instead of the real thing.

 

[Hillhouse]

If I see the pitcher showing the grip to the point where it tips the pitch I will make some suggestions.

Can you name an instance when showing the grip would NOT tip the pitch?

 

[texasheat]

Can you name an instance when showing the grip would NOT tip the pitch?

I can. When the batters don't know what grips the pitcher uses for her set of pitches (which is pretty much ALWAYS) and when the grip is the same for a fastball as it is for a rise or a drop, etc....


IMO, in GIRLS softball, picking a pitch from the grip is as rare as seeing a Sasquatch.

 

[Hillhouse]

I can. When the batters don't know what grips the pitcher uses for her set of pitches (which is pretty much ALWAYS) and when the grip is the same for a fastball as it is for a rise or a drop, etc....


IMO, in GIRLS softball, picking a pitch from the grip is as rare as seeing a Sasquatch.

I don't have to know the exact specifics of how someone grips the ball to see differences in what they do from pitch to pitch. Just about anyone can assume, for example, that if the ball is being cupped or sucked back into the palm that a change up is likely coming. Thats just a for instance. All it takes is for one kid to stop beating the water bottle on the fence and chanting to look, really look at what the pitcher is doing to see the obvious.

I don't disagree that picking is rare, but I am telling you that is changing. The same way film is being used for breakdown of pitching mechanics and swings, film is being broken down to get picks and read a pitcher. This is happening at mid-major D1, therefore you KNOW it's happening at Power 5's. Moreover, the top travel organizations do their best to mimic the top college programs. They use college coaches as mentors and to help train their players to prepare for the next level. Picking and reading pitchers is becoming more and more prevalent. And almost all travel organizations try to "keep up with the Jones" by implementing the same things.

Gonna send you a PM, have a question for you off subject from this thread.

 

[Rolling Hard]

"All it takes is for one kid to stop beating the water bottle on the fence and chanting to look, really look at what the pitcher is doing to see the obvious. "
Love this^^^^^^^
If you can get them to beat water bottles and chant and watch the pitcher at the same time you will have done something very special. Ask one of the chanters what is the count on the batter. They usually don't know. Drives me crazy. Being spirited is good but they need to watch the game too!

They need to find the Sasquatch!

 

[texasheat]

All it takes is for one kid to stop beating the water bottle on the fence and chanting to look, really look at what the pitcher is doing to see the obvious.

I truly wish they were taught stuff like this, I do. But like HE, most of these coaches have done things a certain way for so long, they never deviate so the girls never learn.

As a batter, how do you see that the ball is pushed back into the palm if the pitcher does her backswing with the palm facing 2nd base?

 

[Hillhouse]

I truly wish they were taught stuff like this, I do. But like HE, most of these coaches have done things a certain way for so long, they never deviate so the girls never learn.

As a batter, how do you see that the ball is pushed back into the palm if the pitcher does her backswing with the palm facing 2nd base?

First and foremost, every pitcher is pickable. Everyone does something either on purpose or sub-consciencely that will give away their pitch. I knew a guy that used to stick his tongue out onto his upper lip whenever he was getting his grip and getting set to throw his change up. He never knew he did it but as a batter, whenever you'd see his tongue go out, the change was coming. So it can overt or subvert. A lot of people think this is BS or simply hard to believe, but I've known pitchers who've been picked by their forearm muscles twitching when they'd grip a riseball, for example. the forearm twitches on a rise but not on a drop, bang.. now the hitter knows when that's coming. So, even at 100 degrees you'll see some pitchers wearing a long sleeve shirt on their pitching arm ONLY, then cut the sleeve off the glove hand side. I realize that's the extreme case of it but, it shows the length that some will go to to pick and to hide the pick from others. Knowing what's coming is 1/2 the battle, I wanna hide things as much as possible.

Most of what I was referring to texasheat was picking the pitcher LONG before even needing to see it in the backswing. Something obvious in the motion or pre-motion.

Picking a pitcher can be something obviously like they are "loading" their glove, meaning they get their grip at the side of their body then load it into the glove that way. Or, you can see them spin the ball into a certain position on their thigh, or even in their hand before they put it into the glove. Same for many of the change ups, where the hand is buried into the glove. On other pitches, the hand is only partially in the glove.... on the change up, the entire hand up to the wrist is buried in there as they try to put these "circle" grips and so forth on there. Simply waiting until the ball is in your glove before putting the grip on the ball is the obvious fix for this, but like a lot of things it's not taught at the same time as they learn the pitches. So the importance of how to hide things doesn't get taught at the same time and i never understood why.

The funniest thing to me is when I see the pitchers on TV doing that little twist on the rubber, in an effort to hide the grip they're getting from the 3rd base coach. So they do this little twist, hide their grip, then they turn straight again and expose the glove, the ball, their wrist, the fingers, etc to the 3rd base coach anyway. So, hiding the grip was useless when they come back and show the grip to the coach anyway, then do the backswing which often exposes the grip they were trying to hide in the first place. If you want to hide your grip from the 3rd base coach (which I'd recommend everyone do) then don't bring the ball back to your belt buckle where the glove is opened towards the coach! Keep your glove on your hip with it pointed towards centerfield. This way, the coach has to pick you off something other than simply looking at your grip!!!

 

[texasheat]

This is amazing stuff. I've tried my hand at it a little bit from up in the stands but you take it to another level. If I ever find myself coaching a high level team in a national championship or my DD's high school team in the state playoffs, I know who I'm calling in as a pitch tipping consultant!

Side note, it seems like this incredible skill you possess would be valuable in playing poker. Ever try it?

 

[Hillhouse]

LOL at Poker. I do enjoy a good game of cards now and then. Some of these things are why those card players don't look at each other, wear sunglasses, etc. They don't want to inadvertently give something away.

There are literally countless things to look for when trying to pick someone. My overall point was just focusing on the obvious ones, like prematurely getting the grip before it's put into the glove. You can also sometimes see things when they bring the hand into the glove. For example, for certain grips on certain pitches pitchers will need the glove to be wide open, that same pitcher might also wrap the glove around their wrist for other pitches that don't require such a "complicated" grip. So, glove wrapped tight on the wrist is one pitch, opened up may be another pitch. So, there's all kinds of ways here. But I was truly just focusing on the simpler ones. Some people are just naturals at picking pitchers, others can learn the basics but never see the little things I consider myself pretty good at picking pitchers, Mike White is really good at it too.

I've told this story before but this thread bears it's repeating. 2005 or 6, Japan had beaten the US National team in the KFC tournament in Oklahoma City. The US was unable to hit Ueno and her change up. The next year at the tournament, Candrea brought down a couple guys from the US Men's team to pick her change up, so the US could take that pitch out of her arsenal. After about 2-3 innings, the guys had it picked and relayed it to the US bench. Bang, next thing you know the US beat Japan. Fastward to 2007, a year before the Olympics. Japan is on tour for their Olympic build up and they left Ueno at home, according to buddies of mine who play in Japan, the Japanese team wasn't going to let Ueno throw against the US team and didn't even bring her on the tour that year so the USA couldn't get film of her pitching and have a repeat performance of getting her change up. So Ueno stayed home, Japan did their tour and we all know the result of the 2008 Olympics. Apparently Japan had figured out what she was doing to give her change up away, tweaked it, and wasn't going to let the USA pick her again. And the gold medal game showed that it paid off.

 

[ArmWhip]

Can you name an instance when showing the grip would NOT tip the pitch?

Yes, if she uses the same grip for multiple pitches then why worry about it. Or, if the grip change is too subtle to be detected. If I can't pick the pitch when I'm catching for her, and I make it a point to look, then I don't see a reason to be concerned.