Helping a pitching get stride leg down at the right time

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Nov 18, 2015
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Capt. Obvious here - it's a definite timing issue. The screen shots clearly show that it's taking her over a minute just to get through her windup. I mean, even Steve Traschel pitched quicker! :)
 
May 7, 2008
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well I think this time around the holidays is great chance to work on a few things. She does have a couple bad mechanical issues but I don't think they are insurmountable....and she will have to work on both at the same time.

First is the arm it is locked out almost her whole circle there might be a slight bend at 12 but not much, she does appear to pull the ball down even though she isn't really palm up but more towards third base but for now it's OK since she never really gets hand behind ball position but she has to work on getting that arm loose, find the IR thread and start using the first back chain drill so she can start to feel what a bent arm at 9 feels like.

Second but just as important is the drive. He first motion off the mound is not a drive forward it is a twist sideways and she honestly does look a little like Barnhill but she doesn't get as much of a second push. She needs to drive forward, the first things to hit the ground should be her front foot, hard to say if she is off the ground or just dragging the back foot but it definitely replants into the ground. She can practice this inside just in the living room with no ball,. Also need to not drag the back foot as an anchor can't believe I'm saying this but if you look at the Barnhill video at release her heel is off the ground naturally finishing close to laces to catcher.

Now for some quick other info....has she ever been called for an illegal pitch leaping or replanting? What year group is she? I only ask because if she is a senior already committed this might be something we want to address a little differently in a much more incremental approach.

If you don't understand anything discussed I would be happy to walk through a couple still shots, maybe some side by sides with a model pitcher or whatever but didn't want to take all that time if you understand everything...fastest way to quick results is going to be to stop locking that arm out and get better whip but the other things still need fixed...also forgot to mention does look like she leans over a little hard to tell from the angle but straight and tall would be great cues for her in general anyway
thanks. she is incoming freshman HS so plenty of time to fix. its easy to pick apart, tougher to help them change!!! my personal diagnosis was the foot down at the right time issue is the first thing to fix. . with a firm front side its a lot easier to change an arm bend and whip. its very hard to whip against air. my current conclusion is I need to get her center of gravity forward and that will drive her foot down sooner. I know that with her foot down and providining resistance the back foot "plow" and the arm whip will be a lot easier to learn - and as you observe there are a lot of pitchers who push off with a twisted foot and who throw hard. And there are some whose arm does not appear to lead with the elbow and be bent but get tremendous whip from 9 oclock forward - look at Ric paulies videos of Sarah and his vids of her arm times from 12-9 and 9-6. But sarah has her foot down at 12 and develops tremendous front side resistance as Ric calls it where she transfers power into the ball.
 
May 7, 2008
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"Initiate rotation" is incorrect. There is no conscious effort to open.
no offense but you do have to make an effort to get open. It becomes automatic once drilled in but getting to the open position is IMHO the #1 challenge developing pitchers face.
 
Apr 12, 2015
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no offense but you do have to make an effort to get open. It becomes automatic once drilled in but getting to the open position is IMHO the #1 challenge developing pitchers face.

No offense taken, but in my opinion you are very incorrect. Getting open is neither a conscious or teachable act. Even mentioning "getting open" to a pitcher is likely to nothing but harm. In point, I would argue that the phrase "get open" has ruined good pitching mechanics almost to the degree that "push the ball around the circle" has. All telling a pitcher to get open will accomplish is an unnatural twisting action and a monkey butt posture.

A pitcher will open automatically and without thought in the brief and momentary weightless period between the time the drive leg has finished its work and the time the stride leg makes contact with the ground. The angle of the stride foot will set the angle the hips snap close to. Again, this requires exactly zero conscious thought or effort from the pitcher.

In my opinion, it is far more beneficial to instruct a pitcher to drive straight out trying to stay square to the catcher than it is to mention anything about opening. Nature will do the job better than any of us can instruct it.

Best of luck with her.
 
Apr 12, 2015
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I thought this had been discussed a few months previously, so I checked back on some old posts and found it:


For the sake of discussion, In those 9 frames of Monica, please explain in which one she is making the conscious effort to "rotate" or where you would teach a pitcher to make this conscious effort.
 
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
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USA
The video is now not available. I saw it one time earlier but was planning on returning and looking again. It is still in my mind and the pictures help a bit. She is a replanter. It is not an "almost replant" ......it is a replant. The video of Kelly B is spot on. I agree with many of the things said above but don't agree the drive foot is an anchor with the replant. A replant is an additional push. It does not hold you back or anchor you, it propels you forward. Is it illegal, YES!
 
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
I thought this had been discussed a few months previously, so I checked back on some old posts and found it:


For the sake of discussion, In those 9 frames of Monica, please explain in which one she is making the conscious effort to "rotate" or where you would teach a pitcher to make this conscious effort.
Agree completely with this statement. There is not a conscious effort to "rotate". However, I think one must be careful (not you DNeeld) but others who read this. Monica steps across the powerline by quite a ways similar to Doug Gillis and others I could mention. If you step across the powerline you "have" to rotate to bring it back across the plate or it would go 10 feet behind a right handed batter. Point being.....when you look at several different model "pitchers" you need to understand how they are different from other "model" pitchers and not try to combine all into one or you will struggle. Pick one and focus on her. But trying to look at Amanda, then Cat, then Finch, then Parker, and finally Ueno, will create a nighmare for your young pitcher. They all do some things differently and it all works for them. Just have to figure what works for your pitcher.
Probably took this all completely off topic but hopefully it will help somebody. The powerline step to the right or left is one of my favorites.(y)
 
Apr 12, 2015
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Monica steps across the powerline by quite a ways similar to Doug Gillis and others I could mention. If you step across the powerline you "have" to rotate to bring it back across the plate or it would go 10 feet behind a right handed batter.

I don't disagree at all with regards to Monica. Like Ueno, she isn't the best illustration for drive mechanics because of the issue you mentioned and the fact both close to a much greater degree than most pitchers (both land with the stride foot almost pointed straight at the catcher).

I think probably the easiest way to say it is "Yes, there is rotation to a varying degree. But it is all natural and not a forced or conscious action".

Again, Monica isn't the best illustration, but she is the best series of stills I have :)
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
thanks. she is incoming freshman HS so plenty of time to fix. its easy to pick apart, tougher to help them change!!! my personal diagnosis was the foot down at the right time issue is the first thing to fix. . with a firm front side its a lot easier to change an arm bend and whip. its very hard to whip against air. my current conclusion is I need to get her center of gravity forward and that will drive her foot down sooner. I know that with her foot down and providining resistance the back foot "plow" and the arm whip will be a lot easier to learn - and as you observe there are a lot of pitchers who push off with a twisted foot and who throw hard. And there are some whose arm does not appear to lead with the elbow and be bent but get tremendous whip from 9 oclock forward - look at Ric paulies videos of Sarah and his vids of her arm times from 12-9 and 9-6. But sarah has her foot down at 12 and develops tremendous front side resistance as Ric calls it where she transfers power into the ball.
she definately has time to get this right since she is just a freshman. This forum is all about people providing their opinions and then posters can take what they like and use it and feel free to disregard the rest. One thing we do always try and do is show the best hittters/pitchers and use them as models for what works because if 95% of the most elite pitchers did something you would want to probably try and emulate that....you presented what you thought was a problem timing of the front foot...IMO it's just hard to know if that is an issue until the other issue is fixed. Someone that replants from an open position like your DD must have a hitch or pause in their arm circle to compensate so there is no real way to know what her timing would look like without it. Barnhill had a career that any softball pitcher could only dream of but mechanically you just won't find anyone that teaches proper mechanics wanting their students to emulate what she did.

I have not found any pitchers front foot down by 12 even Sarah is not (although she was the closest)...so I'm not sure why that is even a goal? I'm going to also find a Hillhouse video where he explains the turning sideways issue and post it later. You will see some pitchers turn their foot but it's usually just barely touching the ground and not weight bearing at any point my key for telling if the foot is lose versus an "anchor" is heel postion at release, it needs to be off the ground naturally gettingto laces to catcher position. Remember the posters on here have been down this road, many with there own daughter and have seen the results of getting mechanics right early.
 

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Nov 30, 2018
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Marikina, Philippines
I had a similar problem with my DD for the longest time. after hearing me say her timing was off, and then Java and Coach James saying the same thing, she finally realized something needed to change. so, step one, activate the 6 inches between the ears. :) step two, we changed her posture at start of her drive to a more upright position.
Because her stride foot is closer to touchdown, and her arm is basically at the same timing in the arm-circle, tell them what happened to her speed!
 

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