good read I think -

[bmakj]

There is every chance in the rules and mechanics to get things right. And I am not saying that every umpire understands this or follows this or is educated on this or isn't stubborn or whatever - I am just saying this is how it is meant to work. As I said in another thread - I did my first travel game after a one hour clinic but have dedicated myself to getting better. Some umpires may be out there on just that clinic or are just not all that interested or have the time or the resources to go beyond that.

I think these situations are a great time to also teach coaches how it works, because I have witnessed first hand, the coach is trying to do it the right way, but simply does not understand the protocol. they are not trained umpires, they are coaches. I have seen some very good umpires work with the coaches to get them to ask the right question.

No you were clear. The conversation moved on.... Ok, lets do this, I will go through your whole thing as I would do an umpires asessment:

1. FU: Call of no tag, runner safe. (good, FU call to make)
2. Coach comes out and calmly says he believes he saw a tag that the FU couldn't see, can he please see if the other official saw it (good)
3. FU: says he wont because it is a judgment call (incorrect, this is not a judgment call)
   1. Correct procedure is that umpire assesses whether they clearly saw there wasn't a tag or that they could have been blocked/missed it/etc.
      1. If FU is 100% certain they CLEARLY saw no tag, they say "I clearly saw that she did not apply the tag" and confirm the call. There is no need to confer as FU believes they have all the information necessary. You should not go confer just for show.
      2. If FU is uncertain and believes their partner may have more information, then they should go confer. After conferring with their partner they make their final decision.
4. PU: The Plate Umpire coming up to you after the game and saying his partner got it wrong (highly inappropriate) Throwing your partner under the bus is garbage. If the Field Umpire wanted to come up and say he got it wrong fine - that is their decision to do so or not.

my take, PU was not throwing his partner under the bus, FU was a jerk, and gets away with it because he is in position of authority. This is the problem, too many umpires out there (not all certainly) think that anyone questioning them is absolutely in the wrong no matter what, I am GOD, I am right, I could not possibly be wrong or have missed something, so you asking me to ask for help is tantamount to questioning my authority, go sit down, correct does not matter, upholding my authority is the end all be all. this game is about me.

Or you can take 3 seconds to ask you partner and get it right.

not saying coaches should argue or make a scene, plenty of idiotic coaches out there as well. but too many Umps have delustions of infallibility, and no one is infallible.

 

[texasheat]

This is the problem, too many umpires out there (not all certainly) think that anyone questioning them is absolutely in the wrong no matter what, I am GOD, I am right, I could not possibly be wrong or have missed something, so you asking me to ask for help is tantamount to questioning my authority, go sit down, correct does not matter, upholding my authority is the end all be all. this game is about me.

Nailed it. See way too many umps use the platform as a power trip because they have no power anywhere else in life.

 

[FP26]

I think these situations are a great time to also teach coaches how it works, because I have witnessed first hand, the coach is trying to do it the right way, but simply does not understand the protocol. they are not trained umpires, they are coaches. I have seen some very good umpires work with the coaches to get them to ask the right question.

Bold above is a great point. When I first started coaching, I had no idea what the protocol was. The first time I felt the need to question a call, I started by walking out to the plate umpire. My assumption being that the plate umpire was in charge of the game. The plate umpire informed me that I should have that particular discussion with the field umpire. So I did. After the game was over, I saw both of them chatting by a tree so I walked over and asked them a few questions. They were both very helpful. Once I learned the protocol (and I'm sure I don't know it all...) I never had another issue. Yes, I disagreed with some decisions, and voiced my opinion. But I never once had a heated conversation with any umpire. Well, except for one. But that is a story for another time...

 

[EC22]

A lot of coaches burn bridges during the game using passive aggressive comments (not so softly saying "Great pitch!! Great pitch!! to their pitcher when a ball is called, etc, etc...everybody knows what I am talking about..) and then expect to get the umpires to bend over backwards for them on plays that might actually matter. Drives me nuts..pick your battles..

Really? Great pitch means you should have called it a strike? Ever see a curve off the plate with 2 strikes or a rise ball out of the zone? I get what you are saying but consider this as well. I'm going to say good pitch on any pitch that hits the target, strike or not.

 

[_MIA_]

Really? Great pitch means you should have called it a strike? Ever see a curve off the plate with 2 strikes or a rise ball out of the zone? I get what you are saying but consider this as well. I'm going to say good pitch on any pitch that hits the target, strike or not.

The tone and frequency of said comments are what I am getting at..most umpires are not stupid and can tell the difference between what you are talking about and what I was referring to...

 

[marriard]

Nailed it. See way too many umps use the platform as a power trip because they have no power anywhere else in life.

Not going to deny they exist. Other umpires are not fond of these people either. But most of them don't last long (with some exceptions).

But not as many as you think. Less than 1% in my experience - of course they probably stand out more so people probably perceive it as being more.

 

[marriard]

Bold above is a great point. When I first started coaching, I had no idea what the protocol was. The first time I felt the need to question a call, I started by walking out to the plate umpire. My assumption being that the plate umpire was in charge of the game. The plate umpire informed me that I should have that particular discussion with the field umpire. So I did. After the game was over, I saw both of them chatting by a tree so I walked over and asked them a few questions. They were both very helpful. Once I learned the protocol (and I'm sure I don't know it all...) I never had another issue. Yes, I disagreed with some decisions, and voiced my opinion. But I never once had a heated conversation with any umpire. Well, except for one. But that is a story for another time...

Remember the one hour training I got before I umpired my first travel game. A lot of umpires don't know the protocol either. That definelty wasn't in that hours training.

I had been coaching softball for close to a decade and I had the knowledge from umpires who did educate me. At least from the coaches side. There was a lot I wasn't aware of until I really started to deeply educate myself.

 

[chevy706]

A lot of coaches burn bridges during the game using passive aggressive comments (not so softly saying "Great pitch!! Great pitch!! to their pitcher when a ball is called, etc, etc...everybody knows what I am talking about..) and then expect to get the umpires to bend over backwards for them on plays that might actually matter. Drives me nuts..pick your battles..

As a 10U coach I wonder about what I say being misconstrued by the umpire quite frequently. I will often times say "good miss" to my pitcher when she throws a ball that was called a ball but wasn't terribly off. I'm not intending to be passive aggressive or question the umpire, but literally conveying to the pitcher that if you throw a pitch similar to that one, she may induce a swing or it might move the little bit she needs to get to the zone.

Most of the time, I'm working with familiar umpires that know that I'm not questioning them, but I wonder if you all have any input on if you think my wording is reasonable or if there would be something different you would say.

 

[uncdrew]

A lot of coaches burn bridges during the game using passive aggressive comments (not so softly saying "Great pitch!! Great pitch!! to their pitcher when a ball is called, etc, etc...everybody knows what I am talking about..) and then expect to get the umpires to bend over backwards for them on plays that might actually matter. Drives me nuts..pick your battles..

It's an interesting point you make.

When I'm calling pitches and my pitcher hits her location but it's called a ball, I want my pitcher to know she did well hitting her spot. Sometimes the spot is on the river, or even a purposeful ball.

I certainly don't want the umps reading anything into it other than "Sally, that was awesome."

Hmm...

 

[_MIA_]

It's an interesting point you make.

When I'm calling pitches and my pitcher hits her location but it's called a ball, I want my pitcher to know she did well hitting her spot. Sometimes the spot is on the river, or even a purposeful ball.

I certainly don't want the umps reading anything into it other than "Sally, that was awesome."

Hmm...

In reality it shouldn't matter..but umpires are human...If in a game you heard a coach loudly yell good pitch 10 times in 2 innings (and everytime he/she is looking at you instead of the pitcher) when you called a ball you might take that the wrong way too...