Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Register Log in

good read I think -

Oct 2, 2011
3,346
113
Florida
I did have an incident this weekend where a field ump made a call on a tag where he wasn’t in position to see the tag. Called her safe. I politely called time and went to discuss. He said she did not tag her. I asked him, In a very polite way, if he would ask the plate ump to get his perspective. He said it was a judgement call and he he wouldn’t confer with the PU.
He is incorrect that it a judgement call, but if he clearly saw no tag, he is under no obligation to ask for more info from his partner. But unless it was REALLY clear and I had a great view of the tag and play, I am going to go ask for more info most of the time and I will go before the coach comes out if I think I need to. There is no reason not to.

I Went to the plate ump and told him of the conversation and told him I followed every step I’ve ever been told to follow and the FU refused. He went out and talked to him for a second, but the FU would not grant the appeal.
The plate ump should have waved you away at this point and he absolutley should not have went out to talk to his partner. You have nothing valid to say to the plate umpire at this stage. It isn't his call to control or discuss without the FU and BY RULE he is not allowed to change the partners call.

After the game, I saw them 2 talking for quite a while at the rubber. The PU came up to me a Little while later and said the field umpire was incorrect, it was not a judgment call and he should have granted the appeal since I did so in a professional manner. He said had the umpire appealed to him, he would’ve made the correct call. But he could not do so unless the field umpire initiated the appeal.
This matches most if what I said above. I appreciate that you asked in a professional manner, but that alone is not a reason to ask for more info - the field umpire still would have to agree that there is a chance of more info.

So while I put 95% of blame on the parents and some coaches, some umps can be stubborn and get me mad as hell. Lol
This has gotten better in the years I have been umpiring. Old school baseball umpires used to NEVER changed their calls.
 
Jun 4, 2019
60
18
Thank you to both for your comments. That’s what the PU told me, the fu was incorrect that a missed tag is a judgement call. A judgement call is what a close play at 1B is considered.

I’m not an umpire, and appreciate the job you guys do. And I surely don’t know all the rules.

I also understand an overturn is rare and umps don’t generally overturn another ump, and I get that. No one likes to be shown up in their job. I was a game once where an ump overturned a call and the umps started getting into it. Both quit on the spot and walked off. Lol. Really screws up the tournament when you lose 3 umps at 10 am. 😂
 
Oct 2, 2011
3,346
113
Florida
Thank you to both for your comments. That’s what the PU told me, the fu was incorrect that a missed tag is a judgement call. A judgement call is what a close play at 1B is considered.
Yes, this part is true. A missed tag is not a judgement call (either you saw a tag or you didn't). The part that wasn't true is that just because it is not a judgement call means they have to check with their partner. It means they can if they want to.
 

TMD

Feb 18, 2016
358
28
We want you to become an umpire! Quit coaching! 😁

Here is something I would like to see in travel ball ... if a parent is acting up to the point of ejecting himself/herself, the head coach goes too. A warning to the coach would be in order first.

Then again, maybe the parent doesn’t like the coach ...

Oh, oh ... maybe we allow the player to eject her own parent! Nope, nope. I see that backfiring too.
Here's a better suggestion (that will never happen but may actually make a difference) - if a parent is ejected, then their daughter is ejected too. Needs to be a real consequence for continued poor parent behavior. Would Big Sally keep on yelling her nonsense at the umps if she knew it may get Little Suzie ejected too? I think that's a lesson parents would learn quickly.
 
Dec 11, 2010
2,235
83
Stay with me here for just one second!

When the economy is good and people are working, police departments have great difficulty getting enough applicants to fill the ranks with qualified people. Because the ranks are thin, the less able employees get less training, work more overtime, don’t deal with the stress well and end up not doing a good job. Fair or not, these less able individuals reflect on the more able employees. These are the times when society begins to view it as unfavorable to be a person in an authority position.

When times are lean and the economy is bad, police departments get more applicants and more that are really effective people.

The wave builds on itself but then it goes the other way.

Just for fun, I read this post and pretended that we were talking about police instead of umpires. It’s a microcosm of that world and I challenge you to do it! This thread has social discussion about policing and crime and punishment in it, lol!

The pendulum will swing the other way. We just need to build the structure that allows it to happen when the flood of umpires come back and we become intolerant of bad parent and bad coach behavior.
 
Last edited:
Jun 4, 2019
60
18
Here's a better suggestion (that will never happen but may actually make a difference) - if a parent is ejected, then their daughter is ejected too. Needs to be a real consequence for continued poor parent behavior. Would Big Sally keep on yelling her nonsense at the umps if she knew it may get Little Suzie ejected too? I think that's a lesson parents would learn quickly.
That’s an interesting suggestion, but I don’t think anybody would get on board with penalizing a kid for their parents being assholes. Lol.

Before I ever go out to argue a call, I always try to take a deep breath, collect my thoughts and ask myself if it is really worth it. I found that’s a good thing to do with life in general. Take emotion out of it, and apply reason. Doesn’t help when I have a few football coaches as parents, LOL. They’re used to screaming at refs all game long.

I don’t know, as I get older, I became less competitive in general. Now when I’m coaching, I want to win, but this is not life or death. I see a lot of parents at these games that take it way too seriously. At the end of the day, win or lose, you go home and do the same thing you would do regardless. And Monday morning comes and everybody’s back to their normal life. Nobody’s winning the Super Bowl here.

It’s one of the reasons I stopped playing adult softball in my 20s, after my baseball playing days were over. I’d go out there for fun and you see the entire opposing team act like they were the New York Yankees. It just became not fun anymore. And win anything, especially a sport, stops being fun, it’s time to stop playing. Or at least find a group of people that make it fun again

Some people never grow up. And they never will.
 
Last edited:
Oct 2, 2011
3,346
113
Florida
I’d like to see TB teams charge more, to attract better quality umpires back to the game.
The reality is there isn't a set of quality umpires out there wanting to get back into the game, or that even if you offered more $$$ then the 'better' umpires would do more travel games. The umpires we have are working every slot they are available already.

There is zero investment in new umpires even when we get people willing to try. There is no money for training, clinics, equipment, rule books, instructors... none of that. When I got into softball umpiring I was behind the plate in travel THAT weekend. Did 6 games including a semi-final.

My training before getting assigned a travel game - a full 1 hour clinic the Wednesday before. OK - I have umpired lots of other sports and I know the game well so officiating was not new to me, but to umpire it in travel straight away... That is insane. How someone umpiring for the first time could go out there and do somewhat of a decent job I am just not sure.

To get better I would have to say it is a combination of game experience plus I learned a huge amount here online from those willing to share. I have also spent a good deal of money attending various umpire clinics of varying usefulness that are held once or twice a year - I am lucky to be in a position to be able to afford that. Most people would not be. Plus equipment and uniforms are expensive and need to be replaced on average annually.

I would have to look, but I think my break even for out-of-pocket for softball umpiring was around 42 games last year. It will be more this year since I had to replace and upgrade some of my equipment for handling more higher level games (i.e. it hurts a lot more when a pitch in college hits you)
 
Last edited:

pattar

Clueless..
Jun 8, 2016
3,901
113
It is amateur softball..."bad" umpires are bad for both teams. 95 out of 100 times the umpire is going to have very little to do with who actually wins or loses and in those other 5 times..who cares (see previous comment about it being amateur softball)

The thing that makes me laugh is when parents act as if the umpire is specifically out to get THEIR team..
 
Jun 4, 2019
60
18
The reality is there isn't a set of quality umpires out there wanting to get back into the game, or that even if you offered more $$$ then the 'better' umpires would do more travel games. The umpires we have are working every slot they are available already.

There is zero investment in new umpires even when we get people willing to try. There is no money for training, clinics, equipment, rule books, instructors... none of that. When I got into softball umpiring I was behind the plate in travel THAT weekend. Did 6 games including a semi-final.

My training before getting assigned a travel game - a full 1 hour clinic the Wednesday before. OK - I have umpired lots of other sports and I know the game well so officiating was not new to me, but to umpire it in travel straight away... That is insane. How someone umpiring for the first time could go out there and do somewhat of a decent job I am just not sure.

To get better I would have to say it is a combination of game experience plus I learned a huge amount here online from those willing to share. I have also spent a good deal of money attending various umpire clinics of varying usefulness that are held once or twice a year - I am lucky to be in a position to be able to afford that. Most people would not be. Plus equipment and uniforms are expensive and need to be replaced on average annually.

I would have to look, but I think my break even for out-of-pocket for softball umpiring was around 42 games last year.
Did you get that quote right from me? I don’t recall ever writing about charging more for better umpires. I can’t go back and look through the posts, but it doesn’t sound like something I would If said. If I did, I need to go back and delete it.
 

Latest posts

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
34,689
Messages
506,407
Members
16,049
Latest member
VAsoftball2010
Top