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Glove hand

May 22, 2008
351
0
NW Pennsylvania
I am not really a pitching coach, but I am trying to learn good mechanics to help my 13 year old DD.We have bee struggling with her premotion, separation point, & glove hand during the windmill. She has had a couple months off now & we are about to start practice again for spring & I would like to get her premotion right & not make any more drastic changes later. I watched the 3 clips Mark H submitted in an earlier thread & I see Cat & the Japanese pitcher keep the glove hand pretty well in line with the plate during the windmill, but Finches arm is flying out much like my DD. Unfortunately those videos dont show the early part of the motion. Any thoughts, or more video I could watch? Thanks Lane
 

Aug 6, 2008
43
0
First, I am NOT a pitching instructor either, but I'm thinking back to when my daughter was progressing from a young age. I shot a lot of game video of her pitching during her 13u and 14u travel seasons. We would show the video to her instructor, and she would get tips for corrections in her pitching motion.

If I understand correctly, are you saying that her glove hand is flying out to the side (toward 1st base for RH pitcher) during her motion? In other words, if you would freeze video when her pitching arm is at 12 o'clock, her glove hand is pointing more towards 1st base as opposed to home plate?

This was a "problem" my RH daughter had, and it was causing her to "open up" too soon, caused by the glove side pulling her shoulders open. Her pitching coach had her stress getting her glove out front, and pull straight down towards the front of her left thigh (actually the side of her thigh, as she was still "closed") instead of allowing it to go left and slapping it towards the side of her leg. Think of standing sideways during an ordinary throwing motion, with shoulders aligned with your target.

Disclaimer: This is very basic since there is a LOT more going on in the motion. Also, without seeing video of her pitching, it is VERY difficult to figure out the "problem and solution".

As a side note, my daughter is now pitching DI softball, and tends to STILL throw her glove to the side somewhat. However, she is MUCH stronger now, and has fine tuned her mechanics. There is a BIG difference between what a 20 yr. old college pitcher does and what a 12u pitcher SHOULD be doing. As it turned out, the glove issue didn't turn out to be as big a problem as we thought it would be. But for a young girl, I still believe having the glove "out front" will generate more power, and give better accuracy. As she gets older, she may stray somewhat to what works for her. This is probably what you are seeing in video clips of college pitchers. They have found a motion that works for them AT THEIR LEVEL, but it's definitely NOT basic mechanics I would want to see in a 13 or 14 yr. old.

A sample of the "glove to the side" motion. Notice how she still stays closed even with the glove flying out to the side. Not necessarily a bad thing at advanced levels.

Photo 2 of 16, ULL vs. UNT

This looks like a screw that really drops a lot, causing the batter to "top" the ball = a ground out. Notice the pitcher strides left quite a bit to allow her hand to get on the inside of the ball, and clear her hip.

Best wishes, and good luck!
 
Jul 21, 2008
415
0
Definitly not a screw ball looks more like a roll over drop ball notice the way her hand is turned palm down when she releases the ball. I don't how anyone can throw a screw ball and get it to drop, screw ball normally goes up not down. Just my 2 Cents.
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,695
0
Cutter or down and in.

The hand is to the inside of the ball at the instant of release. The ball is rolling off the area of the palm between the index finger and the thumb.

She is leaning WAY to the right to allow the hand to 'cut' to the side of the ball thereby giving it even MORE side spin.

Her palm is facing almost perfectly up at the instant of release, however, by cutting her hand hard to the left and up will give the ball a 'down and in' spin axis.

She is either throwing a down and in dropball or she is trying to throw a true cutter that has more drop spin than side spin.

Hal

Winning Fast Pitch Softball
 
Aug 6, 2008
43
0
The hand is to the inside of the ball at the instant of release. The ball is rolling off the area of the palm between the index finger and the thumb.

She is leaning WAY to the right to allow the hand to 'cut' to the side of the ball thereby giving it even MORE side spin.

Her palm is facing almost perfectly up at the instant of release, however, by cutting her hand hard to the left and up will give the ball a 'down and in' spin axis.

She is either throwing a down and in dropball or she is trying to throw a true cutter that has more drop spin than side spin.

Hal
That's exactly what I'm seeing as far as release. It's surprising what some of the elite women's pitchers can do. What they sometimes lack in overpowering speed they can make up for with great movement.

The original post was concerning the glove hand, not the ball release method of an elite pitcher. The video was only to demonstrate how an elite pitcher can overcome what appears to be bad mechanics with a younger pitcher, more specifically the glove side.
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,695
0
That's exactly what I'm seeing as far as release. It's surprising what some of the elite women's pitchers can do. What they sometimes lack in overpowering speed they can make up for with great movement.

The original post was concerning the glove hand, not the ball release method of an elite pitcher. The video was only to demonstrate how an elite pitcher can overcome what appears to be bad mechanics with a younger pitcher, more specifically the glove side.
Hi Buster,

If we were analyzing what the pitchers overall motion is, it's not the 'Norm' in good mechanics. However, that glove and glove arm, out to the side, is being used as weight, a counter-balance weight. She is having to lean WAY to the right to get her throwing hand to the inside and under the ball. This action throws her weight to the right so she is countering that force with the glove arm.

Kind of like a tight rope walker and how they use those long poles for balance, they feel their weight shifting to the right and that long pole quickly moves to the left to counter that and keep their balance.

This pitcher is accomplishing the exact same thing with the weight of the glove and glove arm. She is also closing her hips a little more than normal to bring the hand a little farther out in front as the ball rolls off the hand.

If she was throwing a rise ball, her mechanics are awful. For throwing the pitch she is throwing, her mechanics are good and acceptable. You have to do what you have to do to maintain your balance.

She would have fallen off to the right very hard had she not used the glove for balance.
 
May 12, 2008
2,217
0
I usually agree with Hal and leave the specifics to him. I would comment that, IMO, Cat and Ueno have more efficient mechanics than Finch.
 
Aug 6, 2008
43
0
Yep, Hal - I agree. My own daughter's mechanics are far different from when she was 13. But 7 years of experience have made a LOT of difference in her habits and pitching style.

I think we drifted a bit from the original question though. In the original post JC was asking for advice on how to help his DD with a basic, controlled windmill motion. Beginning with the setup on the pitching rubber (simulated signal taking), describe what you feel would be age appropriate "arm mechanics" for a 13 yr. old. - Especially what do you feel good glove-side mechanics should look like?
 
May 12, 2008
2,217
0
Whatever you do with it I'd like to see it end up somewhere near the heart and head. Survival is good.
 
May 22, 2008
351
0
NW Pennsylvania
Thanks for the input guys & gals. We are about to start pitching indoors again, & I would love to throw a couple clips of her motion on here for you guys to look at.- I want to get mechanics pretty good , sooner rather than later this year., But I have no idea how to get video from my mini dvd to this forum.

also, we just changed her premotion from a small premotion (michelle smith teaches) to a full fledged backswing in hope of gaining some speed, & DD is getting tired of constantly changing her pitch. (Cant say as I blame her.) All we are looking for right now is good fastball, & changeup. will work on another pitch later this winter.
 

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