Give me your ruling

[RichK]

Here's a play that happened to us this weekend. Second and third, one out. Ball hit to centerfielder, who makes the catch and then throws home to try to get the runner on third who tagged. Runner is safe.

A coach notices that the runner on SECOND never tagged up. She left the base, watched the catch, and then kept running.

So we have our catcher throw the ball to second. Runner is called out.

However, that out occurs AFTER the runner on third has scored.

Our contention is, play at second is a force-out. Can't score a run when there is a force out on the field for the third out.

Umps, and eventually umpire director, huddle and eventually tell us that is only the case in what they called a "continuation" force out, ie, a batter going to first; a runner on second having to move to second, etc.

Since the umpire had to make a judgement on the runner on second (even though it was obvious, and even though we it wasn't a tag play for the out but a "force out" on the return to the base), then the runner on third was allowed to score if they beat the third out.

Was the call right? I'd never seen that one before : >

 

[honus14]

Your play is not any kind of force out. You can NEVER have a force out after the batter is put out. That's a live ball appeal, and a "timing play;" the run scores because the runner crossed home before the out was made.

Tagging the base vs. tagging the runner has nothing to do with a force out. A force out is when a runner is, well, forced to leave the base because the batter becomes a runner. With first base open, there is no force here.

 

[ctfastpitch]

Ditto on Honus' answer. In order for the run not to count, either the final out of the inning has to be a force-out, or has to happen before the runner crosses the plate. Another hypothetical situation, say you have runners on 1st & 3rd with one out. The batter hits a ground ball to F3. F3 tags the base, then throws to 2B and the runner is tagged out for the final out. If the 3B runner scores before the tag at 2B then the run counts.

 

[jbooth]

Here's a play that happened to us this weekend. Second and third, one out. Ball hit to centerfielder, who makes the catch and then throws home to try to get the runner on third who tagged. Runner is safe.

A coach notices that the runner on SECOND never tagged up. She left the base, watched the catch, and then kept running.

So we have our catcher throw the ball to second. Runner is called out.

However, that out occurs AFTER the runner on third has scored.

Our contention is, play at second is a force-out. Can't score a run when there is a force out on the field for the third out.

Umps, and eventually umpire director, huddle and eventually tell us that is only the case in what they called a "continuation" force out, ie, a batter going to first; a runner on second having to move to second, etc.

Since the umpire had to make a judgement on the runner on second (even though it was obvious, and even though we it wasn't a tag play for the out but a "force out" on the return to the base), then the runner on third was allowed to score if they beat the third out.

Was the call right? I'd never seen that one before : >

You need to learn what a force out is. Your play was an appeal play and a timing play. A force is when a runner is forced to advance because the batter became a runner. The batter was put out, there are no forces in effect.

An appeal, COULD be a force. ie runner on first and third, two out. Batter hits a single. Runner on third scores and the runner on first goes to third, but doesn't touch second on the way. The defense appeals the missed base. This is a force out appeal and the run would not score, because the runner was put out before touching the base to which she was forced.

 

[RichK]

Yep tks for the explanations

 

[BretMan]

This is a commonly misinterpreted play and rule. I participate on several baseball and softball discussion boards. Just this year alone, I've seen this same question, or some variation of it, at least a dozen times. And it's the same every year. It is a question that comes up again and again.

So don't feel bad if you didn't know this one...but now you do!