Front Toss

[_MIA_]

Not talking about bat wiggle or any pre pitch rhythm. I’m talking about waiting to flip the ball until the hitter picks front foot up or shifts weight back slightly prior to picking front foot up.

Yes I know that..you wrote what you were talking about in your OP...it was crystal clear.

 

[erniekru]

Not talking about bat wiggle or any pre pitch rhythm. I’m talking about waiting to flip the ball until the hitter picks front foot up or shifts weight back slightly prior to picking front foot up.

I don't think it is a good idea to flip the ball to the batters timing.. That's not how a pitch works. In front toss, there should be enough movement by the coach for the batter to complete their preswing movement.

For example, I show the batter the ball (raised up about to my shoulder when seated), gently lower the ball with a small pendulum load, and then flip the ball to the batter. All of this motion is exactly the same, pitch to pitch. This gives the batter repeatable cues to work their timing. They have to cue off of me, not the other way around.

 

[Cornbread]

I don't think it is a good idea to flip the ball to the batters timing.. That's not how a pitch works. In front toss, there should be enough movement by the coach for the batter to complete their preswing movement.

For example, I show the batter the ball (raised up about to my shoulder when seated), gently lower the ball with a small pendulum load, and then flip the ball to the batter. All of this motion is exactly the same, pitch to pitch. This gives the batter repeatable cues to work their timing. They have to cue off of me, not the other way around.

Agree with you on how you do it. I think most do it that way. Just got me thinking when I watched the Juco coaches stand up and pull it back quickly and flip it. Watched hitter after hitter look rushed on the first 4-5 swings. My dd adjusted by shifting weight back in her stance but she doesn’t start that way vs live pitching.

I do think having the hitter dictate the timing of front toss could have some benefit to the live swing. Would teach them how to be in control of timing in a live game. Slow the ball down

 

[Towny9]

Agree with you on how you do it. I think most do it that way. Just got me thinking when I watched the Juco coaches stand up and pull it back quickly and flip it. Watched hitter after hitter look rushed on the first 4-5 swings. My dd adjusted by shifting weight back in her stance but she doesn’t start that way vs live pitching.

I do think having the hitter dictate the timing of front toss could have some benefit to the live swing. Would teach them how to be in control of timing in a live game. Slow the ball down

If there was a lot of kids at the camp they were probably just trying to roll through them quickly is my guess.

…or they don’t know what they are doing.

 

[Cornbread]

I have always been suspect of side toss but I like your thoughts on this. Having a plan, (and your plan is a good one), is half the battle.



I also like this. Since dd has been in college I felt like she needed to seee an actual professional hitting instructor and he uses this a lot.

If I was still coaching a team I would be using this like crazy, if you have a large cage available for team practice you could split a cage in half and do half slow jugs and half live arm front toss. Most places we practiced had a second cage that could be used for regular machine etc.

Side toss is really good for teaching the hitter a shorter swing. Set up slightly in front of hitter, show them the ball, and flip towards the rear hip. Teach them to tilt. We do every tee drill using side toss. Great for warming up quickly also. Must teach players how to toss it

 

[Westwind]

Just saw this. It is baseball but the point of the thread is that he uses Hittrax to evaluate how realistic his practice is. It is worth looking at- think there are 4-5 posts under it.

While I dont have Hittrax, this is something I try to do. I try to think about reaction time, is is similar to what the hitter will see in a game and what “shape” or trajectory the ball takes. Is that a similar trajectory to a real pitch?

BTW- I have a programmable Hack Attack. The “curve ball” and “drop ball” setting isn’t even close to any softball pitch I have ever seen anywhere. They go up and then immediately down. Trajectory is no good. Have to create “custom“ pitches to make the trajectory right. Kind of a big time screw up for a very good product.

 

[Lemond]

Just saw this. It is baseball but the point of the thread is that he uses Hittrax to evaluate how realistic his practice is. It is worth looking at- think there are 4-5 posts under it.

While I dont have Hittrax, this is something I try to do. I try to think about reaction time, is is similar to what the hitter will see in a game and what “shape” or trajectory the ball takes. Is that a similar trajectory to a real pitch?

BTW- I have a programmable Hack Attack. The “curve ball” and “drop ball” setting isn’t even close to any softball pitch I have ever seen anywhere. They go up and then immediately down. Trajectory is no good. Have to create “custom“ pitches to make the trajectory right. Kind of a big time screw up for a very good product.

@Westwind would you be willing to share some of the pitch settings that you find to work pretty well, please?

Our kids (HS) HATE the hack attack because it’s not the meatball pitches they saw through 14U on the single wheel Jugs. I tried to explain that the HA is not setting them up to hit HRs every time, it’s trying to get them out!

 

[Rolling Hard]

I could win every game if I my pitcher was a hack attack. Lots of shutouts too.

 

[Cornbread]

Just saw this. It is baseball but the point of the thread is that he uses Hittrax to evaluate how realistic his practice is. It is worth looking at- think there are 4-5 posts under it.

While I dont have Hittrax, this is something I try to do. I try to think about reaction time, is is similar to what the hitter will see in a game and what “shape” or trajectory the ball takes. Is that a similar trajectory to a real pitch?

BTW- I have a programmable Hack Attack. The “curve ball” and “drop ball” setting isn’t even close to any softball pitch I have ever seen anywhere. They go up and then immediately down. Trajectory is no good. Have to create “custom“ pitches to make the trajectory right. Kind of a big time screw up for a very good product.

From one of his thread replies

First is traditional underhand flips: I flip from roughly 20’ away. 20 feet is farther than most but I have had multiple big leaguers tell me they prefer that so they don’t feel rushed with their load and can see a little more ball flight. Average VAA on my flips: -12°

 

[Westwind]

@Westwind would you be willing to share some of the pitch settings that you find to work pretty well, please?

Our kids (HS) HATE the hack attack because it’s not the meatball pitches they saw through 14U on the single wheel Jugs. I tried to explain that the HA is not setting them up to hit HRs every time, it’s trying to get them out!

I can- we are going out to hit in a bit!

When I first got a Hack it was a Jr. It took awhile to figure it out. Hitters hated it.

Also keep in mind, a Jugs Super Softball machine only throws perfect 12-6 spin. Its hard to make that spin look right.

I could win every game if I my pitcher was a hack attack. Lots of shutouts too.

Oh yeah. Even college hitter dd that sees them constantly was hitting some pull side gb’s last time we hit. It’s challenging for sure. I thought I had velo at 65 for a nice easy session. I had forgot to confirm the change I made to the speed. It was actually 71.

Prob do the same tonight, eventually it will be the 3 speed program, she HATES that. Rise, “fastball” and change. Pretty much no clue what pitch it will be, the sound of the machine is covered by Jethro Tull set to Volume 11.