Front side resistance question

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Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
Interesting to see what she is doing with her change her arm is completely straight and hand/ball down but on other pitches she is very slight bend (she needs way more) and third base facing (ok) vice model pitcher

jsoftballddstarightarm.JPGjsoftballcurve.JPGloosearm.JPG
 
Last edited:
Feb 26, 2012
93
8
Interesting to see what she is doing with her change her arm is completely straight and hand/ball down but on other pitches she is very slight bend (she needs way more) and third base facing (ok) vice model pitcher

View attachment 11868View attachment 11869View attachment 11870

The ball position at 9:00 is what I noticed 1st. A pusher will typically release later with a forward lean/bend and little resistance from the front side.

When I used to pitch BP by pushing the ball I bent over and had little resistance.

I have been throwing full circle BP for a while now with IR and it eliminated the lean/resistance problem as a result.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
It would be interesting to ask her without showing her pictures or talking to her at all about it what is her thought process when pitching a change versus any other pitch...then have her walk through what she does different on change versus other pitches
 
Mar 23, 2011
492
18
Noblseville, IN
At release I see the front side
pulling her upper arm/shoulder.
pulling her pivot drive leg.

I see Osorio's back side driving into her front side, not being pulled, if this makes any sense.

Great catch. Definitely doesn't appear to be getting much from her backside until late... Seems like the late push pattern.

JeffG-DD.jpg
 
Jun 19, 2013
753
28
Here's my .02 FWIW.

At release I see the front side
pulling her upper arm/shoulder.
pulling her pivot drive leg.

jsoft_zpsyptoe7dv.gif


I see Osorio's back side driving into her front side, not being pulled, if this makes any sense.

osorio_3rd_zpsktuhelca.gif


osorio_first_zpsiiyjlfo9.gif


In addition, I agree with Ken. She hasn't figured out arm whip. She's trying to throw with her upper arm / shoulder versus her lower arm.


When her stride leg touches down, tell her to try and firm up her upper torso and head and drive her back side hard into the front. Think of an accordion, the back driving this way -----> <----- the front driving this way.

Don't mean to side track this at all, but I think it's pertinent. What do you guys think about the possible relationship with the front foot being pointed more forward and the struggle with getting enough front side resistance. This is something I'm working on my own DD who gets squishy and doesn't get great brush. My theory I'm working on is if it's harder to firm up with knee point more toward catcher and if the foot pointing more toward the catcher is also forcing body closed sooner and decreasing brush . . . still a work in progress, but these comparison shots were interesting along with my thinking.

And on a complete side note, starting out a full 8 inches in front of the rubber is nice if you can get away with it :eek:
 
Mar 23, 2011
492
18
Noblseville, IN
Don't mean to side track this at all, but I think it's pertinent. What do you guys think about the possible relationship with the front foot being pointed more forward and the struggle with getting enough front side resistance. This is something I'm working on my own DD who gets squishy and doesn't get great brush. My theory I'm working on is if it's harder to firm up with knee point more toward catcher and if the foot pointing more toward the catcher is also forcing body closed sooner and decreasing brush . . . still a work in progress, but these comparison shots were interesting along with my thinking.

And on a complete side note, starting out a full 8 inches in front of the rubber is nice if you can get away with it :eek:

IMO it's definitely harder to plant really firm with the front foot pointed forward, but I'm typically reluctant to push them to turn the front foot too much sideways as it will load up their knee. We know from java's research that some of our girls are in high risk categories for knee injuries.

If I recall, your daughter exhibits some of the same late push characteristics as the OP's daughter. It's something that I work with for my daughter. She also has a more open foot plant and bleeds more than I like at plant. I think there might be some linkage between step-dominant strides and landing open.

Kids with good glute usage (drive dominant) tend to get good hip rotation as part of their drive. Their hips are dictating how their shoulders move. I say that they rotate from the bottom-up. Step dominant kids often open at their shoulders first and their hips get drug open in the process (along the lines of knightsb's description when he says "pulling her pivot drive leg" in post #10). I refer to this as opening from the top-down.

I theorize that when you open/close top-down, your feet tend to lag since they are at the bottom of the chain. I think this is why a lot of kids who step forward land really open (of course those who step and turn 90 degrees is a different story). Along this line, I think that if we correct the backside drive mechanics, the plant foot will naturally close more and will provide better front side resistance in a more natural manner.

I worked with a new pitcher the other day, STRONG kid. When she pitched starting out, she stepped to stride and landed squishy. As we reset and worked backwards, when I had her just striding hard (like a sprinter) without all the pitching wind up motions, she drove hard and planted with excellent front side resistance. As soon as she started stepping again from a full windup, the FSR went away again... I think FSR and foot position is linked directly to the rear hip-rear leg relationship that we see when kids use their glutes to drive.

It's not a hard rule either... Monica lands pretty open, but she counteracts the weak front knee by hyperextend it. Seems like a really bad plan for her ACL, but she's had a long run with it.

10058d1458314927-model-pitchers-3b.jpg
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
Don't mean to side track this at all, but I think it's pertinent. What do you guys think about the possible relationship with the front foot being pointed more forward and the struggle with getting enough front side resistance. This is something I'm working on my own DD who gets squishy and doesn't get great brush. My theory I'm working on is if it's harder to firm up with knee point more toward catcher and if the foot pointing more toward the catcher is also forcing body closed sooner and decreasing brush . . . still a work in progress, but these comparison shots were interesting along with my thinking.

And on a complete side note, starting out a full 8 inches in front of the rubber is nice if you can get away with it :eek:

I like the stride foot around 45, but if there was going to be a deviation one way or the other, I'd prefer an orientation more towards the catcher.

Personally, I think it is easier to get front side resistance with the stride foot orientation pointed more towards the catcher. When the stride foot is more sideways than straight, many have a habit of kicking the butt out, bending at the waist, and throwing with more of a bowling motion.

student_zps6a88e4c0.gif


monica_abbott_side_zpsym6imvdb.gif


to be continued...
 
Jun 18, 2010
2,624
38
I also look at the stride foot as an indicator of the core torque or hips working properly.

I'm using Sara as an easy example to see her hips working. Look at the stripe on her pants, and the orientation of her stride foot.

If the stride foot lands 90 degrees to the catcher, I rarely see good core torque or hip action.

sarah_pauly_curve_zpskwz7do0w.gif
 
Jun 19, 2013
753
28
I've never dealt with the front foot as an issue before due to Sara, Ueno and Monica. But I have to face facts that they are about 8 inches taller than my DD also with much longer levers.

I think Amanda's has more the turn on it that I'm thinking of (that pic does look pretty straight above though I think when you watch the slow motion video you see the turn I'm thinking of). Nothing crazy like 90 degrees that you mentioned. or that poor girl in the first video in the blue!! Maybe something between Cat and Blair Luna. Or Jessica (Jake) Elliott. Or Lacy Waldrop. Or Cheridan Hawkins. I'm not good posting pics but I copy them for my DD all the time.
 

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