Fourth out

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Mar 15, 2014
191
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In USA the 4th out can only be against a runner who scored.
If R3 had not tagged up she could have been appealed for the 4th out and negated the run.
if she did legally tag up and scored before R1 was doubled out the run scores.
This is a time play—not a force.
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
93
MI
In USA the 4th out can only be against a runner who scored.
If R3 had not tagged up she could have been appealed for the 4th out and negated the run.
if she did legally tag up and scored before R1 was doubled out the run scores.
This is a time play—not a force.
Are you certain about this?

Example: R2 and R3, 2 out. Both runners get great jumps on the pitch. Ground ball to 3B who tags R2 for third out after R3 has crossed the plate (timing play, run scores). Batter is slower, stumbles, stops to pick daisies, just realizes the third out has been made and heads to dugout, whatever the case may be. 3B throws to 1B for apparent fourth out. Force out, no run scores regardless of timing of the actual out.

Is this different under USA and the run would stay on the board, since it is not the scoring runner who is the fourth out, as it seems you are saying?
 
Oct 24, 2010
308
28
[USA] 5.5C No run shall be scored if a "fourth out"is the result of an appeal of a base missed or left too soon on a runner who has scored.

RS 1.M Fourth-Out Appeal. An appeal may be made after the third out of an inning as long
as it is made properly. The appeal must be made on a runner who has scored but
missed a base or left a base too soon. EXAMPLE: One out with runners on first and
third base. The batter hits a fly ball that is caught. Both runners leave their base
before the caught ball is touched. An appeal is made at first base for the third out.
The defense then makes an appeal at third base before all infielders leave the infield.
The runner on third base should be called out, and the run does not count.

PLAY 5.5-3
(FP Only) With two outs, R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, B5 strikes out, but the ball gets by F2. R1 scores and R2 is out at the plate. B3 failed to run to 1B and F2, after tagging R2, throws to 1B for the fourth out. Does the runner score?
RULING: R1’s run is not nullified. A “fourth out” appeal to nullify a run must be on the runner who has scored. (5-5C)
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
93
MI
I found this from March 2013, includes almost the same scenario I posted above and includes the (then) ASA rationale. Interesting, indeed.


We need to remember, the reason the fourth out appeal was added to our rules was to penalize a runner for missing a base or leaving a base too soon and who has scored. Not to penalize a team for a batter-runner just stopping on the way to 1B because the third out has been recorded. How many times have we seen the batter-runner stop when the third out was recorded because they do not have to run to 1B any more? The same is true when they do run to 1B but miss it when going to 2B or just over running the base. In these cases they can be appealed for the third out but not the fourth out. The rule was made to nullify a run scored by a runner but violated a rule like missing a base or leaving a base too soon. (emphasis added)
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Play: R1 on 3B and R2 on 2B with two outs. B4 hits a ground ball in which R1 scores before R2 is tagged out between 2B and 3B for the third out. B4 never runs all the way to 1B because the third out has been recorded. Now the defense wants to appeal the batter-runner not reaching 1B.
Ruling: This appeal will not be granted since the third out has already been recorded. To nullify a run the fourth out appeal has to be on a runner who has scored and has missed a base or left a base too soon.
Remember the defense always has the opportunity to appeal a force out or the Batter-runner not making it to 1B as the third out before making the third out somewhere else. (My commentary: No, the defense does not have the chance to appeal something that hasn't happened yet) Once the third out is made elsewhere a Fourth out appeal has to be made on a runner who has scored and THAT runner has violated a r

So, USA will instead penalize the defense (by allowing the run to score) for making the out on the live R2 prior to the BR missing the base or abandoning her effort when they should have waited to see if the BR possibly violates a rule?
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
RS 1.M Fourth-Out Appeal. An appeal may be made after the third out of an inning as long
as it is made properly. The appeal must be made on a runner who has scored but
missed a base or left a base too soon. EXAMPLE: One out with runners on first and
third base. The batter hits a fly ball that is caught. Both runners leave their base
before the caught ball is touched. An appeal is made at first base for the third out.
The defense then makes an appeal at third base before all infielders leave the infield.
The runner on third base should be called out, and the run does not count.

The example is exactly what happened in our game.

I never actually talked to our team about this, but I probably should. Who knows when it might come up again in a situation where that run will actually matter.
 

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