Forearm Fire vs IR

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May 9, 2013
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In general terms there is no difference. There are specific things that each IR coach might do a little different but Forearm Fire is just another term that FP Power came up with to describe their method in an appealing way.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
Forearm Fire is very different. Whip with I/R relies heavily on the articulation of the elbow/forearm. Forearm Fire places a stronger emphasis on wrist snap for power and ignores the importance of adduction of the upper arm and transfer of energy to the lower arm. In FF, it’s assumed the upper arm adds nothing to the pitch after 12 o’clock and that gravity is the only power source affecting the arm and release. Interestingly, if you watch the presenter demonstrate each, things look very similar until well after release.
 
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Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Forearm Fire is very different. Whip with I/R relies heavily on the articulation of the elbow/forearm. Forearm Fire places a stronger emphasis on wrist snap for power and ignores the importance of adduction of the upper arm and transfer of energy to the lower arm. In FF, it’s assumed the upper arm adds nothing to the pitch after 12 o’clock and that gravity is the only power source affecting the arm and release. Interestingly, if you watch the presenter demonstrate each, things look very similar until well after release.

In the above demonstration of 'forearm fire' I didn't see a great deal of 'wrist snap'.
 
Oct 19, 2009
1,023
38
I'm right here.
Sorry Ken, but I disagree with your wrist snap opinion. IMO Forearm Fire has no emphasis on wrist snap; in fact he never mentions it.

The difference between I/R and FF is the belief of how the energy is transferred to the forearm at release, and the pitching mechanics to apply this belief. The physical difference in the motion that applies these beliefs is the angle between the bicep and forearm, and the bicep action as the arm comes down.

In FF there is more of a 90 degree angle between the bicep and forearm from 11:00 to 9:00, and at 9:00 the bicep comes down and stops or pauses when it come in contact with the body. The forearm then drops or whips, like a pendulum (taking the energy from the stopped bicep with it).

In I/R the arm travels much further down the circle, with the flexion at the elbow joint remaining unchanged The energy is transferring from the upper arm to the lower arm and wrist through release. There is no pendulum action with I/R.


TJ
 
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Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
At about the 1:00 mark, the presenter begins to explain the importance of the three contributing joints then says, "I think we all know... how important wrist snap is in the delivery of a truly powerful windmill pitch." He further seems to suggest that the shoulder/upper arm has no active contribution to the release and that gravity does the work.

My take on I/R and whip is that the upper arm/shoulder is the primary power source and that the lower arm/hand stay relatively loose.

TJ--where does he explain this:

The difference between I/R and FF is the belief of how the energy is transferred to the forearm at release, and the pitching mechanics to apply this belief. The physical difference in the motion that applies these beliefs is the angle between the bicep and forearm, and the bicep action as the arm comes down.

In FF there is more of a 90 degree angle between the bicep and forearm from 11:00 to 9:00, and at 9:00 the bicep comes down and stops or pauses when it come in contact with the body. The forearm then drops or whips, like a pendulum (taking the energy from the stopped bicep with it).
 
Oct 19, 2009
1,023
38
I'm right here.
At about the 1:00 mark, the presenter begins to explain the importance of the three contributing joints then says, "I think we all know... how important wrist snap is in the delivery of a truly powerful windmill pitch." He further seems to suggest that the shoulder/upper arm has no active contribution to the release and that gravity does the work.

My take on I/R and whip is that the upper arm/shoulder is the primary power source and that the lower arm/hand stay relatively loose.

TJ--where does he explain this:

He never does explain it this way.....This is my understanding of the difference based on my education, compiled from a lesson we had with Phil, private conversations with Carly, and additional conversations with Boardmember about the ins & outs of I/R. After putting it all together this is what I feel the difference is.

Regarding wrist snap....yeah, I feel and agree wrist snap has it's place; but it's not the basis or foundation of any motion.

Is FF grossly different than I/R?...no I don't think so. FF is still a "Whip" motion that IMO has some mechanical differences than the I/R motion highly discussed on this forum, but both accomplish "whip"; and FWIW FF is light years ahead of any HE style (IMO).

With that said, the delivery style you choose is still just one part of the motion (albeit it's a critical part to maximize your potential....but there are other parts before and after that are essential too). Phil does do a very nice job teaching the full motion; and he has produced some quality pitchers. (Carly's younger sister threw 70). He and Carly do an excellent job teaching how to get in the proper K, staying stacked and on track, front side resistance, NOT slamming the door, follow-thru is straight out to the target, etc. Carly also emphasizes the importance of being loose, especially in the shoulder...all good stuff.

Is he quirky? A little yeah. But I feel he gets a unwarranted bad rap on this board. My daughter and I went to see him for one lesson to get us on track with the whip motion; and he did just that. We live too far away to see him regularly; but the one (extended) lesson we had was great and set us down the right path; and we will always be very grateful for that.
 
Oct 19, 2009
1,023
38
I'm right here.
Forearm Fire
Shoulder Smoker
Humerus Heave
Elbow Exploder
Wrist Wrecker

It sounds like you are saying the Forearm Fire Motion will...

Injure your Shoulder, Humerus, Elbow and Wrist.

If you are not saying this then I don't get what you are implying....so please elaborate.

If you are saying the Forearm Fire Motion will injure your Shoulder, Humerous, Elbow and Wrist...then please confirm.

Thanks!
 

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