For those analyzing BB swings for a reference to hit in FP

[Quasimodo]

Maybe this young lady, who you seem to have something against outside of her inability to hit a pitch above her waist, just cannot hit regardless of where her back elbow is in her stance..?? There are plenty of HL softball hitters who have a "high back elbow"...

You think she made the national team because she is a dud! She is one of the two best sliders on the team. She is faster than average. She is athletic in every way. Her swing speed, which is very important once the girls get out of the Philippines, is very important. She makes great contact in the lower zone near the knees. But, coaches here miss the importance of certain factors, such as smarter coaches who will recognize their weaknesses, and they underestimate swing speed. Our fastest pitcher, a 17-year-old, here in the Philippines throws 64mph, and that only happened this year. She threw 58 in 2017. We faced Team USA girls in the Junior World Championships in Florida in 2017 that threw 68-70. Even now I am coaching two big heavy girls who were selected with swings better suited to 55mph. Satti is not one of them! You guys just won't cede! At the same time you claim MLB players could learn to hit fastpitch, you claim there is no difference. That is know as equivocation in philosophy. A contradiction of your own terms.

 

[_MIA_]

You think she made the national team because she is a dud! She is one of the two best sliders on the team. She is faster than average. She is athletic in every way. Her swing speed, which is very important once the girls get out of the Philippines, is very important.

If you wanted to make a valid argument you would have told me why having a high elbow in softball was a detriment. Instead you just told me the kid was Jackie Joyner-Kersee..still doesn't mean she would be a good hitter with a low elbow. . Do you somehow think a high elbow doesn't allow hitters to hit balls up in the zone?? If so please explain why. As I stated, there are good hitters in FP who have a high elbow.

At the same time you claim MLB players could learn to hit fastpitch, you claim there is no difference. That is know as equivocation in philosophy. A contradiction of your own terms.

Please point out where I claimed there was no difference in reading a pitch released from 3 feet off the ground from a flat surface vs a pitch released from an elevated surface thrown overhand. The pitch read and how the brain extrapolates from past experience to figure out where it is going to be would be the issue initially for MLBers. With enough experience they would figure it out.

 

[Quasimodo]

Macho hormones? All about me. I see we have an expert.

A former player of mine like in the attachment then, in your view can not hit at a high level? She was taught to swing it like Pujols:

I stated specifically that I was referencing others, not targeting you Canonball. As far as your .jpegs are concerned, the two hitters are different in their approach. I like that your girl Butler keeps her weight inside her back foot. I like her elbows, and the fact that her back elbow is down. That 90-degree frame is important to maintaining an efficient "power-box". I like her posture. Just her build tells me she might have pretty good power if she uses her bottom half well.

I do wonder if that excessive bat-wrap may cause a premature wrist snap or barred front arm. I wonder if it gets even bigger? Maybe she has good fast-twitch muscles that save her day.

As for the second photo, it reminds me of a game in Visalia California in a semi-final game between the Nor-Cal Tremors and Gordon's Panthers. I knew the Evans family, so I told Nancy Evans (Univ. of Arizona recruit) mom that if Nancy just throws rise-balls and changeups to the Nor-Cal team she would shut them down. She did. She threw only those two pitches the entire game. Not one drop-ball. They hit one pop-up to shallow center, and the rest were K's and infield pop-ups. A no-hitter! Nor-Cal taught their players to use a high back elbow and a vertical bat. They hit low pitches great, just like my BB girl with the BB dad that got cut. Personally I did not approve of her cut. That is an assumption others have made. Most Asian Junior National Teams focus on keeping the ball down. (added: in other words she would be a weapon against the better Asian pitchers.

 

[_MIA_]

 

[julray]

I am torn with this argument.. LOL. First of all, many great fast pitch hitters have a high elbow, just like some great MLB hitters have a low elbow, for example

High elbow


Low elbow


Regarding swinging up at riseball.. lightning in a bottle. Hitters can swing up at any pitch, does it mean it's the right approach? No. I don't recommend chopping down on a riseball either. I say try to stay on top of a riseball, with more of a level swing. But more importantly, learn to recognize it and lay off

 

[Quasimodo]

It's not the location of the rear elbow that matters (it drops into the slot as a torquing movement anyway) but the front elbow that determines the swing plane and, if it doesn't elevate, is the reason she can't hit balls above her waist.

For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. Hitting, pitching, and some elements of defense are all physics. Completely! A high back elbow will come down to slot; true! But it will also drag the bat head down.

Jen Yee

Redirect Notice

I have seen Jen Yee 100 times at-bat in International play, but never at Georgia Tech. I can say that I have seen 2 different Jen Yee's. In truth, she is an exceptional talent. I think her success is based more on terrific hand eye coordination and great timing. She hits the ball where it is pitched, and seems to hit it in the right spot in the zone. She is really a brilliant mind! Mechanically, I do not think she is perfect, hence the 2 Jen Yee's. However, the last time I saw her in the World Championships she was terrific, the best hitter on Canada. This shows why one single example to make a point is rather mute. It demonstrates one finite example not necessarily applilcable to the whole. Jen even in batting practice showed a rather "U" shapped "loopy" swing, a little late to the plane of the pitch and an early exit. I saw her last in 2014 in Harrlem, Netherlands. I do not know what she has done since except work. So how is she so good? My conclusion was as I said above. She is the exception, and when healthy, exceptional. So what do you see in her photo and video.

 

[Quasimodo]

So Antonelli, a baseball player and baseball coach says you can upper-cut at a rise-ball and be successful? He is a great player/coach, but I again do not think cherry-picking one video to make a point, makes the point.

I will give you two choices. You have a meteor intersecting the earth's orbit at an angle of 25-degrees. You have another exactly on the earths orbital plane. Which has the better chance of TIMING the earth's path to make contact? It is physics! The bat-head on the path of the pitch has the greatest chance of making solid contact. I hope you survive! Sierra Romero, and her sister both have rather high back elbows. At the very least, they both maintain a good 90-degree elbow angle. But show me her hitting 13 straight home-runs off of game-speed riseballs. Exceptions are not an argument for the norm.

 

[_MIA_]

So Antonelli, a baseball player and baseball coach says you can upper-cut at a rise-ball and be successful? He is a great player/coach, but I again do not think cherry-picking one video to make a point, makes the point.

I will give you two choices. You have a meteor intersecting the earth's orbit at an angle of 25-degrees. You have another exactly on the earths orbital plane. Which has the better chance of TIMING the earth's path to make contact? It is physics! The bat-head on the path of the pitch has the greatest chance of making solid contact. I hope you survive! Sierra Romero, and her sister both have rather high back elbows. At the very least, they both maintain a good 90-degree elbow angle. But show me her hitting 13 straight home-runs off of game-speed riseballs. Exceptions are not an argument for the norm.

Those videos were shown by me to show great FP players who have high back elbows...I am sure I could have found gifs instead but those were the easiest to pull up at the moment.

Again what is it about high back elbows that doesn't allow a hitter to hit a high pitch? You haven't answered my question yet..

Also thanks for the "physics" lecture...

 

[Quasimodo]

Those videos were about great FP players who have high elbows...I am sure I could have found gifs instead but those were the easiest to pull up at the moment.

Again what is it about high back elbows that doesn't allow a hitter to hit a high pitch? You haven't answered my question yet..

Also thanks for the "physics" lecture...

Yes, it is in the physics "lesson". You will notice in any slow-motion video, maybe a quality video at 480i or above, that a player with a high back elbow "drafts" the bat-head behind the hands. This is true of a low back elbow.
The bat head always follows the hands.
When the elbow cranks down, the bat head follows. That is what creates the swing path right? When the elbow cranks down, and the bat-head is in movement moving cranking down, it has some kinetic energy. Ultimately that mass in motion causes the bat head to drop a little below the path that a low elbow would have created. That cranking down creates energy how? It creates downward energy, not linear energy toward the ball. It does utimately cause the bat-head under the ball because of the downward inertia.

Now I have seen video showing how nice it is to swing UP at a riseball, and stated in the video as if it is a norm. It isn't with a normal, lowered back elbow in the upside-down "V "position. In that elbow position, again, the bat-head follows the hands, assuming the hand's path to the ball without interference of the downward inertia. If you want to get under the ball, especially a riseball, then keep the elbow high. Until a pitcher can throw above 40% of her riseballs for strikes in a game, I teach my girls to ignore her. But perception still lies to them, and they would swing, if there were some specific drills.

If you want to do a little physics experiment, place a bat on the dirt of the infield or on a hard surface. Stand or kneel in line with the bat, perpendicular to your body. Use two fingers, one on each side of the bat, representing your hands, and move your fingers across your body from right to left, pushing the bat knob to the left. Watch what the bat head does. If you move it slowly, it moves behind the fingers or hand and follows the path created by the hands. If you move it rapidly, it will swing down below the path you have created with your hand. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The brown dots represent your fingers. You could also say that the kinetic energy causes inertia once the bat head gets parallel as in the 3rd bat image. The dropped bat head is caused by that inertia. It is physics. It can't be denied, just misunderstood.

NOTE: In Antonelli's first video above, he talks about working down on the ball in softball. I have never heard of such a thing at our level. It is working BEHIND the ball, a flat path swing on the plane of the pitch as early and late as possible. There are two Japanese coaches here in the Philippines that preach chopping down on the ball. Their knowledge is not current, it is from the 1960's Japan. The Japanese and USA players are basically the same in their approach. Other than those two who have very little acceptance, here, in Europe, or in International play, I have never heard of such a concept. It lacks an educational understanding in mechanics on those coach's part. I guess if they mean swing down to the plane of the pitch that is okay with me, but getting on the plane of the pitch is what it is all about. I want the bat-head on the plane of the pitch behind the back leg using rotation and shoulder tilt. I accept that some female players can hit with a high back elbow, but I teach. I teach young girls here who have never had a drop of reasonable coaching; coaches who rely on myth and what their neighbors dad told them. I teach a form, because I want as many as possible to have clean working mechanics. But a high back elbow is only one of the two issues. Swing plane, or the common upper-cut is the other issue.

 

[Shawn]

Jen Yee

Redirect Notice

That back elbow is too high! lol

I should add that Jen slots the back elbow early in competition. She might as well just start there.