Field conditions - is this normal?

[Dabears17]

It's true that its a little more complicated than comparing the baseball field to the softball field, but what is the harm in asking the School District's Title IX compliance officer to investigate? If the overall Title IX compliance is fair, then it should be easy to prove there are no issues.

One thing to remember is to check the laws in your state. In California the requirements for equal access and treatment are stricter than federal law. It's either AB40 or AB42, I think.

The local rec league serves two adjacent cities. 25 to 30 years ago, one city supplied 100pct of the fields and 90pct of the players. Over the years it grew until ~2006 one city provided 100pct of the fields and 60pct of the players. We asked nicely starting in 2006 to get one field to support the ~150 girls from that city. The two baseball leagues and the good old boy network pushed back. In 2006 after games started, we only had dirt infield practice space for ~20pct of our teams. The baseball teams had access to infield time for practice once a week.

I got on the board in 2007 and we started pushing a little more. In 2009 I became VP. In 2010 Pony baseball elected to let us use 1 field 4 days a week for practice. Pony also let us use grass space at one of their schools for 6u practices. Little League refused to give us anything. Total number of softball/baseball players from that city said we should be getting ~3 fields a week from that city, whose fields were controlled by the school district.

Little league had a history of every 15 to 20 years of starting a handful of girls softball teams to protect field space, dropping the program after 3 or 4 years, and keeping the field space. That is what they threatened to do in 2011 when we pushed for closer to the 3 fields the numbers justified. We said go for it, they ran it from 2011-2014, then dumped most of the ~70 girls in their program on us. I felt bad for Pony because somehow Little League cooked the books so they didn't have to give up any field space, and Pony had to give up field space. We were nice and only took 10 field days from Pony instead of the 18 to 21 we were entitled to by the numbers.

The school districted pushed back and said the leagues had to come to a compromise, it wasn't their responsibility to figure it out. Until in Jan of 2011 our field scheduler said the magic words, 'Who is the district's Title IX compliance officer that we need to talk to?'. Then we had the 10 field days we needed at a minimum.

The good news is the High School from that city usually had weak teams most years, average teams if they were lucky to have a good pitcher. The last 6 years or so they have been pretty good. This year the seniors were in 6u when we got them some field space in their city to play and practice on. Yesterday I had the pleasure of seeing in person that High School team win to advance to the CCS championship game. My DD has played on teams with 6 of the starters, and I have coached 5 of them, and helped run clinics that the other 3 starters have attended.

Don't be afraid to push for equal access to resources for your DD's.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

They do not compare similar sports like that. I won’t argue with you anymore after this. If the baseball field is nicer than the softball field that is not automatically a title IX violation. Maybe the field hockey field is nicer than the mens soccer field to make up for it.

You are getting all defensive and protective (after attacking me first by the way). I’m not saying that women’s sports fields shouldn’t be equivalent to men’s sports fields. I think that schools should strive to have equal facilities in similar sports. It’s the right thing to do. I’m just saying that it’s not necessarily a title IX violation if they don’t.

Not sure where, why or how you think I'm getting "defensive and protective" or that I am "attacking you". I say you're wrong, you say I'm wrong. That's it, my experience tells me otherwise. I was successful bringing my programs softball field and facilities up to par just by threatening Title IX. It might not have been the way Dale Carnegie suggested in "How To Win Friends And Influence People", but it ruffled feathers and worked. LMAOWIOAB.

 

[CoachJD]

Not sure where, why or how you think I'm getting "defensive and protective" or that I am "attacking you". I say you're wrong, you say I'm wrong. That's it, my experience tells me otherwise. I was successful bringing my programs softball field and facilities up to par just by threatening Title IX. It might not have been the way Dale Carnegie suggested in "How To Win Friends And Influence People", but it ruffled feathers and worked. LMAOWIOAB.

Oh, but you're definitely, 100% wrong on this. Towny is correct. Towny understands Title IX. You just made random threats and got people to act, which is great if it helped improve the conditions for female sports. But that doesn't mean you know or understand Title IX.

Towny literally posted the actual Title IX language for you and you just ignore it. I can't even fathom how a person could do that. Just take the L here.

 

[KrisHur]

Seeing that most male/female lacrosse, basketball, soccer, wrestling, tennis, and volleyball teams use the same facilities, the only place you really see disparity is baseball/softball fields. Baseball and softball are the only 2 truly "male" and "female" sports (except field hockey but there is no male equivalent) so while Tawny may be right with the letter of the law Gimne is also correct in that one can/should/must look to a comparison of baseball/softball facilities for disparity as facilities for the rest of boys/girls sports will be the same.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

Oh, but you're definitely, 100% wrong on this. Towny is correct. Towny understands Title IX. You just made random threats and got people to act, which is great if it helped improve the conditions for female sports. But that doesn't mean you know or understand Title IX.

Towny literally posted the actual Title IX language for you and you just ignore it. I can't even fathom how a person could do that. Just take the L here.

Okay CoachJD, please cite where Towny posted "actual Title IX language" for me that I'm ignoring. Maybe I missed it.

If you are talking about the OCR Investigation Guide that Pattar posted ... I don't believe there are many high schools that are going to want to test the proportionality clause rather than upgrade a facility.

From the OCR page:
"The Title IX regulation contains specific provisions governing athletic programs and the awarding of athletic scholarships. Specifically, if an institution operates or sponsors an athletic program, it must provide equal athletic opportunities for members of both sexes. In determining whether equal athletic opportunities are available, OCR considers whether an institution is effectively accommodating the athletic interests and abilities of students of both sexes. OCR also considers the following factors in determining whether male and female athletes are provided with equivalent benefits, opportunities, and treatment: equipment and supplies; game and practice times; travel and per diem allowances; coaching and academic tutoring; assignment and compensation of coaches and tutors; locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; medical and training facilities and services; housing and dining facilities and services; and publicity. The Title IX regulations specify that if a recipient awards athletic financial assistance, it must provide reasonable opportunities for such awards for members of each sex in substantial proportion to the number of students of each sex participating in interscholastic or intercollegiate athletics.

 

[Towny9]

100% most schools will make it right (and they should if there is an issue). A lot of times they will cave to parent pressure even if there is no violation because Title IX lawsuits are long and expensive to fight.

Sorry for taking us down this road. Sometimes I can’t hide the teacher in me I was just trying to clarify/correct a misconception in the thread that the two had to be equal. In VA, a girl can play baseball, but a boy cannot play softball. I always found that interesting - they aren’t always viewed as the same sports.

 

[Dabears17]

Inherently two people have taken issue with what @GIMNEPIWO said, but not addressed my post.

I have 4 sisters and 9 nieces. I coached for 3 years, was on the board of the local rec league for 3 years (including one year as VP) before my DD started playing. I plan on umpiring or coaching softball after my DD stops playing. I was an unpaid JH AC when my DD was in 9th grade. I volunteer with my DD's org helping players getting started on their college recruiting journey. The local rec league has asked me to be their 2023 UIC (scary!). I did not think sexism existed to a large degree in the United States to I became the VP of a female sports league.

I will be polite, patient, but ruthless, if necessary, in my advocating for fair and equal treatment of female athletes.

BTW, that High School team won a CCS title this morning. 6 starters whom I've coached in rec and/or B/C ball, 2 I had pointed in the direction of specialized coaching, and most, if not all, of the players coming out of the rec league my advocating to get them dirt practice space mostly equivalent to what the boys had starting when were 6 or younger.

 

[Towny9]

Inherently two people have taken issue with what @GIMNEPIWO said, but not addressed my post.

I have 4 sisters and 9 nieces. I coached for 3 years, was on the board of the local rec league for 3 years (including one year as VP) before my DD started playing. I plan on umpiring or coaching softball after my DD stops playing. I was an unpaid JH AC when my DD was in 9th grade. I volunteer with my DD's org helping players getting started on their college recruiting journey. The local rec league has asked me to be their 2023 UIC (scary!). I did not think sexism existed to a large degree in the United States to I became the VP of a female sports league.

I will be polite, patient, but ruthless, if necessary, in my advocating for fair and equal treatment of female athletes.

BTW, that High School team won a CCS title this morning. 6 starters whom I've coached in rec and/or B/C ball, 2 I had pointed in the direction of specialized coaching, and most, if not all, of the players coming out of the rec league my advocating to get them dirt practice space mostly equivalent to what the boys had starting when were 6 or younger.

I’m not sure if I was one of those people or not, but I think that is outstanding. Those girls benefited from your advocacy.

The two nicest facilities at my high school are the field hockey field and the softball field. I feel pretty good to have been a big part of that as well so I know how you feel.

 

[Tatonka]

I will be polite, patient, but ruthless, if necessary, in my advocating for fair and equal treatment of female athletes.

Without listing all of the reasons, history and background I find myself being a huge advocate for women's sports. So my hat's off to you DaBears, same here (although the polite and patient part can be difficult for me at times) and the more who get on board in support the better off we all will be!

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

Inherently two people have taken issue with what @GIMNEPIWO said, but not addressed my post.

I have 4 sisters and 9 nieces. I coached for 3 years, was on the board of the local rec league for 3 years (including one year as VP) before my DD started playing. I plan on umpiring or coaching softball after my DD stops playing. I was an unpaid JH AC when my DD was in 9th grade. I volunteer with my DD's org helping players getting started on their college recruiting journey. The local rec league has asked me to be their 2023 UIC (scary!). I did not think sexism existed to a large degree in the United States to I became the VP of a female sports league.

I will be polite, patient, but ruthless, if necessary, in my advocating for fair and equal treatment of female athletes.

BTW, that High School team won a CCS title this morning. 6 starters whom I've coached in rec and/or B/C ball, 2 I had pointed in the direction of specialized coaching, and most, if not all, of the players coming out of the rec league my advocating to get them dirt practice space mostly equivalent to what the boys had starting when were 6 or younger.

In most cases you will need to be ... My Aunt used to say "If you don't look out for yourself, who is going to look out for you"

I remember several years ago I was coaching in a Dixie Youth Rec League. There were baseball and softball fields at the same complex with one Board Of Directors over-seeing both. I'd been coaching there for several years ... One afternoon some bad thunderstorms came up and I received a call that all games were canceled. That evening I was picking up some take-out at the Mexican Restaurant down the street ... In line with me I saw a parent with his son in his full uniform ... Making small talk, I just said "Too bad the games were canceled, the skies cleared up pretty good after that rain" ... They looked puzzled and said ; "Canceled ? Games weren't canceled ... We just went in the storage area and got out some speedy dry." As it turned out, the storage room that softball teams were told was "baseballs storage area" is where they hid the speedy dry from us ... The league had been buying it for years and never gave us access to it ... That changed right then and there. One thing I was never able to get changed was the amount of games that softball played versus baseball. Parents payed the same amount whether your child played baseball or softball ... Yet, the baseball season started earlier, ended later and they played several more games than softball did ... As I remember it was maybe 5-7 more games.