Fatty Grip

[MNDad]

I'm going to play devil's advocate a little here and defend Tango.

#1 - Who is to say you don't find a pitch that is natural to the kid and is devastating to batters in the process of trying some new grips/pitches? Don't know unless you try so try a new pitch now and then even if you have 4 good ones already. You may find one that replaces one of the 4..

#2 - Nothing like some experimentation to keep things fresh and interesting for a pitcher. My DD gets excited when trying a new pitch. Becomes extra engaged. Trying some new grips/pitches now and then can pump some freshness into her workouts. Might not find anything new for the arsenal but at least she had some fun in the process. It's not like having a fun workout now and then is going to kill their development when they're 14 and already playing A ball. Have a little fun with pitching workouts now and then. It's not like we're talking life or death here. It's supposed to be fun. Keep your DD engaged. Keep her mind open to new things.

I get what you’re saying and agree it’s good to mix things up. Experiment grips, try different drills, and learn what works and what doesn’t. I just think most pitcher parents try to have their DD’s take on too much.

Most 14U players don’t have four good pitches, even at the A/elite level. They probably have one or two good ones and a couple of average ones. Experimenting is great to keep it fresh, but before adding to their game repertoire they need to master what they’ve got first.

You’re always looking toward the next level. A 10U’s devastating change up is a meat ball at 12U and so on. Keep it fun and keep improving.

 

[djcarter1966]

I'm going to play devil's advocate a little here and defend Tango.

#1 - Who is to say you don't find a pitch that is natural to the kid and is devastating to batters in the process of trying some new grips/pitches? Don't know unless you try so try a new pitch now and then even if you have 4 good ones already. You may find one that replaces one of the 4..

#2 - Nothing like some experimentation to keep things fresh and interesting for a pitcher. My DD gets excited when trying a new pitch. Becomes extra engaged. Trying some new grips/pitches now and then can pump some freshness into her workouts. Might not find anything new for the arsenal but at least she had some fun in the process. It's not like having a fun workout now and then is going to kill their development when they're 14 and already playing A ball. Have a little fun with pitching workouts now and then. It's not like we're talking life or death here. It's supposed to be fun. Keep your DD engaged. Keep her mind open to new things.

I actually completely agree with you, I even posted in another thread the girls should try more grips, finger pressures and spins and find what works for them. My only thought here is trying to teach 7 or 8 different pitches starts to become counter productive. Really focus on what you can throw now and experiment a little and refine more.

 

[Tango]

@MNDad stole my comment...She is 14 she has 4 pitches. Now you want to see about introducing a few more? Then you say she doesn't throw the drop some innings and the rise is used less than that. So the majority of her pitches are curves and change ups? At this point I would really suggest mastering what you have on her plate, the only thing I would even consider at this point might be a screw ball or whatever you want to call it that breaks the opposite direction of the curve it might even be as easy as just trying to put a tail on her drop ball. I don't think you are going to run into many D1 or professional pitchers that say the key to my success was throwing 7 or 8 different pitches. If you can move the ball each direction side to side and up and down and change speed 5 pitches is probably more than plenty just my opinion. The problem I see when girls try and fill their plate with a bunch of pitches is they lose consistency which is a must when pitching. Also if the drop really drops and isn't a flattish fastball she should probably be throwing it more.

Her drop is her fastball. We play 14U Class A ball. Some innings we see girls that can absolutely crush and we do not throw her drop (fastball) and they see curve and change. If we get a head in the count we may go up and in with the rise and then go back away. Bottom of the line up you will see a lot more drop balls (FB). Hope that makes some sense. Again a grip is not a pitch, IMO. Drop curve is very similar to her change just harder. At some point I assume we will subtract what is not good. Probably give the fatty grip one more try and if not a lot better drop it.

I played college baseball, was a HS head baseball coach at one point, 17 years as a HS head football coach and AD. I don't think I'm putting to much on her plate but maybe wrong. I have been wrong a lot in my life. LOL.

 

[Tango]

I get what you’re saying and agree it’s good to mix things up. Experiment grips, try different drills, and learn what works and what doesn’t. I just think most pitcher parents try to have their DD’s take on too much.

Most 14U players don’t have four good pitches, even at the A/elite level. They probably have one or two good ones and a couple of average ones. Experimenting is great to keep it fresh, but before adding to their game repertoire they need to master what they’ve got first.

You’re always looking toward the next level. A 10U’s devastating change up is a meat ball at 12U and so on. Keep it fun and keep improving.

She has a very good palm up curve and very good change. Her drop (fastball) is average speed but hits spots very good. Her rise is not her best pitch. Two very good pitches and two average pitches. If the fatty rise is better than her normal rise wouldn't you add it? If the fatty curve is really good then you have added and off speed pitch. Both of the fatty grip pitches are exactly the same as her current pitches. We have held off on the drop curve until this week to make sure she was ready to add another pitch. IMO, 2 good ones and 2 average pitches and added one new one (drop curve). I don't understand all the 8 pitches talk. Maybe I'm crazy.

 

[djcarter1966]

Her drop is her fastball. We play 14U Class A ball. Some innings we see girls that can absolutely crush and we do not throw her drop (fastball) and they see curve and change. If we get a head in the count we may go up and in with the rise and then go back away. Bottom of the line up you will see a lot more drop balls (FB). Hope that makes some sense. Again a grip is not a pitch, IMO. Drop curve is very similar to her change just harder. At some point I assume we will subtract what is not good. Probably give the fatty grip one more try and if not a lot better drop it.

I played college baseball, was a HS head baseball coach at one point, 17 years as a HS head football coach and AD. I don't think I'm putting to much on her plate but maybe wrong. I have been wrong a lot in my life. LOL.

That was kinda what I was thinking if her drop ball is a true drop ball you actually want to be spotting that lower half of the zone and on the outside black to good hitters so their only real option is reach out and poke it over first base or try and foul it off, if you can get a little tail away on it they can't touch it. If it is flatter tough good hitters are covering outer half knee high but should still be the fall back against any good hitter.

Plus doesn't really sound like we are talkng completely "new" pitches just slight grip variations although no thumb is probably bigger adjustment than slight. Have you tried other grips, or just playnig with finger pressures?

 

[Tango]

That was kinda what I was thinking if her drop ball is a true drop ball you actually want to be spotting that lower half of the zone and on the outside black to good hitters so their only real option is reach out and poke it over first base or try and foul it off, if you can get a little tail away on it they can't touch it. If it is flatter tough good hitters are covering outer half knee high but should still be the fall back against any good hitter.

Plus doesn't really sound like we are talkng completely "new" pitches just slight grip variations although no thumb is probably bigger adjustment than slight. Have you tried other grips, or just playnig with finger pressures?

MS season is over and no TB for now. The drop curve is going to be really good. Her change moves down and a away a ton (best pitch). The only problem with her change is sometimes it is a little to hard but big movement. If her drop curve and change are to close together in speed then it may not be great. I was hoping the fatty curve would be on the slow side and the fatty rise would just be better than her rise.

Don't think the fatty grips are going to be good for her. I think the drop curve and change will be good but still to be seen. Not messing with any other grips and not planning to anytime soon.

She throws coach Paulys drop and hits spots with it really well. She also hits spots with her curve really well. Hardly ever up in the zone. Her change moves like crazy and normally down and away.

 

[ArmWhip]

Does she get decent backspin on her rise or is it bullet spin? I have had some pitchers who could not get decent backspin on their rise with the thumb on grip because they could not hold on to the ball. They had more success with the fatty grip. I also have a pitcher who can throw it both ways. She has better spin with the thumb on but is more consistent and has better control with fatty grip.

 

[Tango]

Does she get decent backspin on her rise or is it bullet spin? I have had some pitchers who could not get decent backspin on their rise with the thumb on grip because they could not hold on the ball. They had more success with the fatty grip. I also have a pitcher who can throw it both ways. She has better spin with the thumb on but is more consistent and has better control with fatty grip.

Not true backspin and not true bullet. Have only used the fatty grip one day and it was bad for her. LOL. She always throws strikes so when she doesn't it seems really bad.

 

[MNDad]

She has a very good palm up curve and very good change. Her drop (fastball) is average speed but hits spots very good. Her rise is not her best pitch. Two very good pitches and two average pitches. If the fatty rise is better than her normal rise wouldn't you add it? If the fatty curve is really good then you have added and off speed pitch. Both of the fatty grip pitches are exactly the same as her current pitches. We have held off on the drop curve until this week to make sure she was ready to add another pitch. IMO, 2 good ones and 2 average pitches and added one new one (drop curve). I don't understand all the 8 pitches talk. Maybe I'm crazy.

I initially counted the fatty grips as separate pitches. After hearing you explain it I see they’re not.

In my experience two very good and three average pitches isn’t maximizing her potential. If she can cut down to three pitches and make one of them great the sky’s the limit. The difference in an average and an elite pitcher is 3-5 mph and one great pitch. As she ages up the zone gets smaller and the hitters will jump on anything over the plate. Throwing a very high percentage of strikes will lead to giving up a lot of hits. She’s young enough she has lots of time to learn new pitches. Let her truly master a pitch. By master I mean get it to the point she can strike out 18U players with it. That’s where she’ll need to be if she’s going to pitch in HS or beyond.

I don’t have your experience coaching. I’m just a Dad who watched his kid go through the ups and downs of pitching. By no means am I saying I’m right. This was just what I saw.

 

[Tango]

I initially counted the fatty grips as separate pitches. After hearing you explain it I see they’re not.

In my experience two very good and three average pitches isn’t maximizing her potential. If she can cut down to three pitches and make one of them great the sky’s the limit. The difference in an average and an elite pitcher is 3-5 mph and one great pitch. As she ages up the zone gets smaller and the hitters will jump on anything over the plate. Throwing a very high percentage of strikes will lead to giving up a lot of hits. She’s young enough she has lots of time to learn new pitches. Let her truly master a pitch. By master I mean get it to the point she can strike out 18U players with it. That’s where she’ll need to be if she’s going to pitch in HS or beyond.

I don’t have your experience coaching. I’m just a Dad who watched his kid go through the ups and downs of pitching. By no means am I saying I’m right. This was just what I saw.

Just talking ball. She doesn't throw the drop or curve hardly ever over the middle of the plate. Never call it over the middle and not even on her card. Paints corners most of the time and her misses are off the plates when she misses. Control is really unreal. Last complete game she pitched the umpire came over and said you need to buy a new plate because she wore the corners off that one. LOL.. I know it sounds like bull but the 81% is on the corners most of the time and really they start giving her a little more as the game goes on because she hits the mitt and keeps pounding it. Our former pitching coach on the second practice at 9 years had her move back to 43ft and see how many strikes she could throw out of 10 pitches. She threw 8 and he said he had never seen anything like it. He has coached forever. Don't remember but assume it was with the 11 inch ball. That's her gift. Has trouble walking and chewing gym but hits spots.

Change is excellent but has not mastered it outside to LH. Normally low and away to righties with tons of movement. Rise still needs work. At the moment it is the one pitch that changes eye level and inside. She can spot the drop in and curve in also but they are both down.

Curve and change will be there later, IMO. Spotting the drop will be there but not sure about speed. Working like crazy on it now. Speed days built in to her weekly schedule. Even on non speed days a couple of speed drills. Exercise program from Robbie Herbert. I think the drop curve is going to be a really easy pitch for her to master. Need to see how it fits in. Will not be throwing it every practice at the moment. One day a week and monitoring it. If it continues to show great potential we will start including it more. If not we will drop it. Focus will be speed and hold the location on the other top pitches.

I think she has to have drop and rise. Drop is elite as far as location but not speed. Rise is the eye changer but weakest pitch.

Thanks for talking ball. I will take everything in consideration. As long as she is working we will try to do whatever to make her the best she can be. It has to be her and not me!