Fatty Grip

[Tango]

DD is 13 and has great control of her drop, change, and curve. One walk in 30 plus innings. Speed needs to get better 53-55. Since we have some time off we started working on 3 new pitches. Fatty grip curve, fatty grip rise, and a drop curve.
Drop curve was really good from the first pitch. Her change is similar and it looks really natural.

DD has very small hands. Very small- and the fatty grip spins were not very good at all. If a kid has small hands is it worth the time to keep working on the fatty grip?

 

[Hillhouse]

What in the name of hell's bathroom is a "fatty grip" Tango?

 

[_MIA_]

What in the name of hell's bathroom is a "fatty grip" Tango?

The state of my hands (and everything else) in about 3 months when they open my gym back up?

 

[Gags]

What in the name of hell's bathroom ....

Probably the only place left that still has toilet paper. Would also explain the maniacal laughter I hear coming up through the floor...

 

[Tango]

What in the name of hell's bathroom is a "fatty grip" Tango?

Thumb off grip.

 

[Hillhouse]

Thumb off grip.

Thanks for explaining. But, on top of the "fatty grip" question, you said a couple things that struck me. First you said her speed needs to increase. Then you said her spins were not very good.. Both problems relating to the "fatty grip". Whenever you remove the thumb from the grip, the only way to hold the ball effectively is to put it further into your palm. This means more hand on the ball and more hand means less speed on the pitch. And if you don't think her ball rotations were good, and you believe the axiom that more hand = less speed, then why would it even be a question for you guys to change grips? Where's the debate?

I understand she has small hands. So do a lot of pitchers. Grips always need to be adjusted for hand size, and having large hands is an advantage not a requirement. The spin is your absolute, the grip is a style or choice. Some grips have more natural advantages than others (less hand on the ball, etc) but that doesn't make them "correct".

I'd suggest doing some homework on other grips, find one that's comfortable and stick with it. Every time you start with a new grip, a lot of things have to start over for the process to work.

Bill

 

[Tango]

Thanks for explaining. But, on top of the "fatty grip" question, you said a couple things that struck me. First you said her speed needs to increase. Then you said her spins were not very good.. Both problems relating to the "fatty grip". Whenever you remove the thumb from the grip, the only way to hold the ball effectively is to put it further into your palm. This means more hand on the ball and more hand means less speed on the pitch. And if you don't think her ball rotations were good, and you believe the axiom that more hand = less speed, then why would it even be a question for you guys to change grips? Where's the debate?

I understand she has small hands. So do a lot of pitchers. Grips always need to be adjusted for hand size, and having large hands is an advantage not a requirement. The spin is your absolute, the grip is a style or choice. Some grips have more natural advantages than others (less hand on the ball, etc) but that doesn't make them "correct".

I'd suggest doing some homework on other grips, find one that's comfortable and stick with it. Every time you start with a new grip, a lot of things have to start over for the process to work.

Bill

DD's normal curve and rise grip is not the fatty grip. Her curve ball is very good with her normal grip. Her normal grip is a modified grip for her hand size (both fingers together on the seam). I understand that some grips will not work for some kids. She can backdoor her curve. Throw it for a strike on the outside corner. Throw is two balls off the plate pretty consistent. She uses the same grip for her rise. She normally throws it up and in and keeps people honest (not her best pitch). She really paints the outside corner with most pitches.

Just not sure if the fatty grip requires bigger hands. I assume some can throw it and some can't no matter the hand size but not sure.

Have read that the fatty grip will give you more spin and it is used as an off speed pitch between your change and normal curve and rise.

 

[Hillhouse]

Well, I can only speak to you from my own experience. I was not always 6'3 with big hands. I was also an 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 year old pitcher too (softball, not baseball). And in my learning phase, I tried every grip known to man. I think I may have even invented a few in desperation when things weren't working to my satisfaction. I'd see someone with a good riseball and ask how they held it and threw it. Then I'd see someone throw harder with a better rise and ask THEM how they held it and threw it. And I found that keeping my thumb on the ball gave me the best spin possible. The thumb is the strongest of the fingers, I can't imagine not using that to my advantage. Of course I know that others can throw pitches without their thumb, I've seen pictures of it. But I believe them to be the exception, not the rule. I personally have tried everything. I want my thumb's help. But not everything is for everyone.

You mentioned 2 other things: she uses the same grip for the rise/curve and that her rise is not her best pitch. Well, a "true curveball" is simply a riseball thrown sideways. Not one of these pitches where someone simply throws it outside and believes they have a curve. No, the ball needs to curve from the ball rotations not from your angle of release (same for the alleged "screwball" that so many have). And I have always found that learning a curve before the rise makes the rise much harder to learn. I mean, it's a nightmare to learn anyway. No question. But the turn of the wrist that often happens when learning a curve is the same thing that absolutely kills a riseball and makes it go bullet spin. I find that many pitchers discover the curve on their way to the rise... but I don't let them off the hook. I try getting them to file what they did away in their brains and get back to work on the backspin (riseball), we'll come back to the sidespin curve later.

Bill

 

[Tango]

Well, I can only speak to you from my own experience. I was not always 6'3 with big hands. I was also an 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 year old pitcher too (softball, not baseball). And in my learning phase, I tried every grip known to man. I think I may have even invented a few in desperation when things weren't working to my satisfaction. I'd see someone with a good riseball and ask how they held it and threw it. Then I'd see someone throw harder with a better rise and ask THEM how they held it and threw it. And I found that keeping my thumb on the ball gave me the best spin possible. The thumb is the strongest of the fingers, I can't imagine not using that to my advantage. Of course I know that others can throw pitches without their thumb, I've seen pictures of it. But I believe them to be the exception, not the rule. I personally have tried everything. I want my thumb's help. But not everything is for everyone.

You mentioned 2 other things: she uses the same grip for the rise/curve and that her rise is not her best pitch. Well, a "true curveball" is simply a riseball thrown sideways. Not one of these pitches where someone simply throws it outside and believes they have a curve. No, the ball needs to curve from the ball rotations not from your angle of release (same for the alleged "screwball" that so many have). And I have always found that learning a curve before the rise makes the rise much harder to learn. I mean, it's a nightmare to learn anyway. No question. But the turn of the wrist that often happens when learning a curve is the same thing that absolutely kills a riseball and makes it go bullet spin. I find that many pitchers discover the curve on their way to the rise... but I don't let them off the hook. I try getting them to file what they did away in their brains and get back to work on the backspin (riseball), we'll come back to the sidespin curve later.

Bill

Thank you sir, rise will come with speed, IMO. At times it is good but not consistent. She was taught curve before rise. I think she stops and doesn't finish it all the time, trying not give curve ball action.

 

[Pitcher's DadCoach]

Tango, I think 53-55 is good speed for 13. Is she 12U?

I am in agreement here. the thumbs must be on the ball. Try to tell her to release the thumb on the snap. This will at the very least get her to consciously think about releasing the thumb at "the end of the pitch".