Errors Vs Effort

[2br02b]

So - two plays from the past weekend have been making me think about scoring errors and they both involve the "ordinary effort" clause.

One was a defensive play for our team and the other was a defensive play for another team.

1st play:

Waist high line-drive directly at 2b. She recognizes that it is going to hit the ground before it gets to her and tries to make the catch. She charges and dives at the ball and the ball hits the dirt just under her glove and goes under her as she falls.

2nd play:

Similar hit - waist high line drive to the right of SS. She moves to her right (maybe 3 steps) to intercept the ball and it bounces - slightly changing direction- so that it misses her glove and hits her left knee (which was out front and moving at the time) and gets knocked all the way off the field behind 3rd.

 

[TMD]

imo, Play 1 is not an error. Charging and diving for a ball to make a play isn't "ordinary effort." Play 2 feels like it could be an error, but would probably have to see it (how hard was it hit, how close to her did it bounce, etc.).

 

[fuzzy2651]

I wouldn't call #1 an error. Now if she didn't charge it, it was right at her and she tried to play the hop and she missed it, then I would mark an error.

I would probably mark an error on #2. It just sounds like she misplayed it.

I could be wrong on both of these, I'm only in my 3rd year of keeping book/GC, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can from you guys.

 

[sjw62000]

I concur with TMD & fuzzy2651. "Ordinary effort," incudes charging, but not diving so play #1 is certainly a BH. Play #2 could be E6 or BH depending on scorekeepers judgement. This is the line where a scorekeeper's experience and judgement come in and sometimes "you gotta go with your gut."

 

[grcsftbll]

I would not give an error for the dive. If she makes that play she's the hero, definitely not ordinary effort. Hopefully there's good back up on that but it's fun to see them really lay out.

I'd have to see the second one, sounds like it could go either way.

 

[WVSteven]

Was the dive necessary for the out in play #1?
If she played the bounce did she have a chance at an out? Did her actions, even if applaudable, cost her team an out? If so, error, if not then base hit

 

[canyonjoe]

Unless you are playing at a really high level than i would score both a hit. The second one took a bad hop (or it least it sounds like that). A similar example is a line shot out to RF when dives for it and misses and girl winds up on 3rd it's a triple even though if she just lets it bounce and plays the ball it would have only been a single. Number of errors on a player can be so misleading. You can have a statue who makes ever play field 1.000 while another stud SS covers the whole left side and has some bad throws trying to make a great play be at .950.

 

[wheresmycar]

Was the dive necessary for the out in play #1?
If she played the bounce did she have a chance at an out? Did her actions, even if applaudable, cost her team an out? If so, error, if not then base hit

Agreed. Sounds like if she hung back, played the bounce, she could have gotten force out at first. This sounds like an error.

#2 really depends on how bad the bounce was.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Agreed. Sounds like if she hung back, played the bounce, she could have gotten force out at first. This sounds like an error.

#2 really depends on how bad the bounce was.

1) hit - mental errors based on mistaken judgment don't count as errors in the book
2) E6 - sometimes you catch a bad bounce, that's life

 

[WVSteven]

1) hit - mental errors based on mistaken judgment don't count as errors in the book
2) E6 - sometimes you catch a bad bounce, that's life

So you charge an error for a bad hop and not for a bad decision that costs an out? OK, I don't keep a score book and these books we're discussing are not official, but I see the world differently. If your decision costs my team an out, it's an error. I may tell you to keep being aggressive and not worry about fielding percentage, but it's an error in the book. If the ball hits a rock and bounces away from you when you were in position to make the stop on a tough play, I am not giving an error on that one. Bad bounce vs. costly decision, different philosophies I guess.