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Dropped third force out at home

Jun 11, 2013
2,094
63
I can't believe this and the IFF rule trips so many people up. It's really not that hard. We were on a 14U team once and one of the coaches and many of the fans still didn't know the rule. It was a travel team so they easily had been to over 150 games up to that point.
 
May 29, 2015
1,593
113
NFHS
73417B00-2AA0-4957-A63E-873B4417789C.jpeg

Although I can see how one would be confused if they only read the “Timing Play” definition as it refers to any 3rd out that is not a force out. Especially since this is buried in the Scoring and Record Keeping section.
 
Last edited:
May 29, 2015
1,593
113
And now for the possibly controversial one ... I’m go into ask for some help with USSSA because I’m not finding it in their book.

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Jun 6, 2016
1,015
63
Chicago
Can one of the umpires here to show mewhere a batter-runner being forced out at first is not called a "force out." Not only is it logically a force out because the batter-runner is forced to run; it also meets the requirements of a force out. From a semantics standpoint, it's definitely a force out; from a rules standpoint it seems to be, too.

I can find multiple instances in the NFHS rulebook where this is referred to as a force out in one context or another. Section 6, Article 3; Section 6 Article 7 (this is about appealing, but it explicitly says the batter-runner being put out at first base is a force out); Section 10, Article 2a; Section 38, Article 2 (a batter-runner is "an offensive player who is being forced to advance").

So whre do you guys see, specifically, that a batter-runner being out at first is not considered a force out? I've never, ever heard of this before, and I can't find anything in the rules to support it.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,387
63
The definition of a force out is a runner who loses the right to occupy a base because the batter becomes a batter runner. A batter runner cannot occupy a base in which to be forced from, and a batter runner is not "forced" to run anywhere. For all practical purposes a play at first base on a batter runner is treated exactly the same as a force out, but by definition it is not one.
 
May 29, 2015
1,593
113
@CoachJD — Well ... learning is fun, for all of us! I didn’t know this, but ...

USSSA actually does consider any play on the batter-runner at first base a force play. That’s why I couldn’t find it.
1ADBC89D-6EF6-466D-ADCA-B3C1E67FACF9.jpeg


USA Softball does NOT ...
CF8B28AD-09B9-4B8E-8749-25F16CDB4BAF.jpeg

Nor does NFHS ...

63FE9A39-A27E-4717-A204-583281DB728D.jpeg



... and yes, it is an area that the rulebooks are “sloppy” on. I agree with you it makes more sense to use “forced to advance” as the standard (which would make a play on the batter-runner a force play), but traditionally the standard has been “forced to vacate” (which would exclude the batter-runner).
 

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