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Drive Mechanics

Mar 23, 2011
490
18
Noblseville, IN
Jryan,

You were very much in my thoughts (well, B was...) when I put this together.

And although I love your illustration above... some kids (and I know you know this better than most) simply cannot overcome the negative position of the hips... in relation to the knee & shoulders. As such, we can displace the hips initially... a la STFG... thus allowing them to utilize a better positioned posterior chain earlier in the motion.

I'd be curious (even if it were offline), if B gave this a go? Hope you are all well, and say hi to her for me!
Hi Java. Don't know if you had much time to review my research in the post that I made on fixing sprinter's posture (link), but I document in detail about the performance disability that DD, myself, and countless others have, quad dominance.

Quad dominant kids just cannot produce thrust from the middle regardless of their efforts (trust me, we tried for a very long time). It is a wall that cannot be scaled without resolving the underlying issue which is in their feet and specifically with the arch. I don't have a bullet proof solution yet other than for everyone to 1. recognize it, 2. work to strengthen the foot arch, 3. keep high focus on foot strength during strength and conditioning workouts

I will make a bold assertion... Every high level pitcher has thrust from the middle regardless of how much they bend at the waist.

There may be rare exceptions, but not enough to forgo saying that "thrust from the hips is an absolute".
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,342
48
Western NY
Hi Java. Don't know if you had much time to review my research in the post that I made on fixing sprinter's posture (link), but I document in detail about the performance disability that DD, myself, and countless others have, quad dominance.

Quad dominant kids just cannot produce thrust from the middle regardless of their efforts (trust me, we tried for a very long time). It is a wall that cannot be scaled without resolving the underlying issue which is in their feet and specifically with the arch. I don't have a bullet proof solution yet other than for everyone to 1. recognize it, 2. work to strengthen the foot arch, 3. keep high focus on foot strength during strength and conditioning workouts

I will make a bold assertion... Every high level pitcher has thrust from the middle regardless of how much they bend at the waist.

There may be rare exceptions, but not enough to forgo saying that "thrust from the hips is an absolute".
I did. Although I don't entirely agree with some aspects, there's no doubt a great deal of research and effort applied your way - and we all appreciate that. I have the opportunity to work with countless young athletes every year - and there are plenty of girls that overcome what you describe by simply taking them out of a failing posture. It's not about inability to recruit, it's about timeliness and COM more often than not.

Question still remains... have you tried the STFG with B yet? Although it's not a fix for everything, I'd be curious to see her attempt the drill... as I'm wondering the effect of putting her in a different position (literally)... as opposed to the one you illustrated above. Again, we can do this offline, if you prefer... or not at all. No biggie.

Thanks, again.

Sorta want to keep the Sticky trimmed down a bit, so perhaps we have this conversation on another thread or via PM.
 
Last edited:
Dec 5, 2012
4,103
63
Mid West
i did. Although i don't entirely agree with some aspects, there's no doubt a great deal of research and effort applied your way - and we all appreciate that. I have the opportunity to work with countless young athletes every year - and there are plenty of girls that overcome what you describe by simply taking them out of a failing posture. It's not about inability to recruit, it's about timeliness and com more often than not.

Question still remains... have you tried the stfg with b yet? although it's not a fix for everything, i'd be curious to see her attempt the drill... As i'm wondering the effect of putting her in a different position (literally)... As opposed to the one you illustrated above. Again, we can do this offline, if you prefer... Or not at all. No biggie.

Thanks, again.

sorta want to keep the sticky trimmed down a bit, so perhaps we have this conversation on another thread or via pm.
stfg....????
 
Mar 22, 2019
28
3
Illinois
Does this apply to advanced pitchers? Most college pitchers I see lean forward at the waste and load at some point in their motion. Dont get me wrong, it looks like a good drill for younger pitchers to time there stride and arm circle but what about that power from loading?
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,376
63
Pac NW
Does this apply to advanced pitchers? Most college pitchers I see lean forward at the waste and load at some point in their motion. Dont get me wrong, it looks like a good drill for younger pitchers to time there stride and arm circle but what about that power from loading?
Try both and see what you feel.
 
Mar 23, 2011
490
18
Noblseville, IN
Does this apply to advanced pitchers? Most college pitchers I see lean forward at the waste and load at some point in their motion. Dont get me wrong, it looks like a good drill for younger pitchers to time there stride and arm circle but what about that power from loading?
I would recommend taking a look at the large collage that I posted (link) and getting a feel for when rear hip extension happens. Generally a high level pitcher will being seeing rapid rear hip extension before her arm reaches 6 o'clock (assuming she has a back swing). This should be regardless of a deep or shallow waist bend. Rapid hip extension should still occur early in the drive. If they have early hip thrust, they should also have rear foot release from the rubber as the arm circle hits 3 o'clock.

If your pitcher is not realizing this pattern then there is probably an issue. Timing could be the issue. I can't speak for Java, but I bet that was the impetus of the STFG drill. I contend (and Java and I have some disagreement here) that another reason for missing the fore-mentioned check points which could be that the athlete is quad dominant and that a QD athlete will never meet those checkpoints without fixing the underlying QD issue.

So I would recommend:

1. See if your athlete is within the check points above (if you are really technical, my model pitcher database might also help)
2a. If athlete is good to #1, keep working and getting stronger
2b. If athlete is lacking rear hip thrust, do STFG for a while and see if the issue is resolved
3. If STFG doesn't work, then dig deeper into the quad dominance issue (more info here)
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,342
48
Western NY
Does this apply to advanced pitchers? Most college pitchers I see lean forward at the waste and load at some point in their motion. Dont get me wrong, it looks like a good drill for younger pitchers to time there stride and arm circle but what about that power from loading?
What is power from loading... Versus... inefficient movement? What is movement if it is timed poorly? What happens when we lack recruitment (as jryan suggests) in an optimal way?

These are all questions that each have different answers for... depending on the athlete you work with. Each student is entirely unique... so when I publicly recommend a drill (which I really do not like doing, btw)... I like to strip it down as much as possible - involving only the necessary movements/concepts that I would like to illustrate.

In this drill, it's all about developing overlap, positioning the body for successful recruitment, and learning to enhance the stretch-shortening cycle... FOR as many people as humanly possible.

Can we bend at the waist? Sure... but some can never recover. Is too much bend at the knee a contradiction to the stretch-shortening cycle? Absolutely, that's been proven a thousand times over. Is overlap enhanced when our time is spent recovering from contrasting movement (bend down Vs go forward)? I think you get where I'm going...

Last thought... and I truly appreciate your insight and questions...

Efficiency is most often defined as getting more... by doing less. I hope that resonates through those that attempt this kind of drill.

Best,
~JS
 
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