DP / FLEX question

[slagothar]

On the starting lineup, team uses the DP / FLEX; DP is batting 4th, FLEX listed on bottom of lineup card, so everything seems to be in order.

When they take the field, their DP is pitching, and FLEX player is on bench, which confuses us. Is it necessary to report that they are switching the DP and FLEX to the plate umpire?

 

[Comp]

The flex MUST play defense otherwise they have been substituted for by either the DP or another player. The DP can play defense for anyone other than the flex and it is not a substitution, but, if the DP is playing defense for the flex, the flex has left the game and it counts as a subsitution for the flex and they must use their reentry to come back into the game. The DP playing defense for the flex, or the flex batting for the DP must be reported to the umpire.

 

[slagothar]

Thanks! So, if the other team didn't report the DP playing defense for the FLEX, it is an illegal substitution? What is the penalty?

 

[Comp]

It is an unreported substitution, not illegal. Some rule sets handle it a little differently, but as for ASA, if found on defense and the player made a play the offensive coach gets the option of the play or a do over and the unreported player is now in the game. If found on offense and is brought to the umpires attention while at bat, the player is entered into the game. If after the at bat is completed and before a pitch is thrown to another batter, the unreported player is called out and is entered into the game. If after a pitch has been thrown the player is entered into the game and no penalty.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

It is an unreported substitution, not illegal. Some rule sets handle it a little differently, but as for ASA, if found on defense and the player made a play the offensive coach gets the option of the play or a do over and the unreported player is now in the game. ...

"Play" does not include pitching (e.g. strike out), right?

If found otherwise on defense, the unreported player is now in the game. In OP's case, the effect is the Flex is out of the game.

I saw a case of this in an NCAA game this year between Oregon and Washington. Mike White forgot to re-enter a player after lifting them for a pinch runner. Heather Tarr sat on it for more than an inning until the player either made a play on defense or reached base. I don't recall which it was, only that WA benefited from it.

Can a coach make an umpire aware of the unreported sub without protesting it? In the WA-OR case, it was very easy for the umpire to see on his line-up card 1+ innings later that the substitution wasn't reported. In OP's case, I think you'd have to make the umpire aware of it before the half-inning was over so the umpire can see the Flex wasn't playing defense. Otherwise, the substitution may not get recorded if the Flex plays defense after that.

 

[Ajaywill]

"Play" does not include pitching (e.g. strike out), right?

If found otherwise on defense, the unreported player is now in the game. In OP's case, the effect is the Flex is out of the game.

I saw a case of this in an NCAA game this year between Oregon and Washington. Mike White forgot to re-enter a player after lifting them for a pinch runner. Heather Tarr sat on it for more than an inning until the player either made a play on defense or reached base. I don't recall which it was, only that WA benefited from it.

Can a coach make an umpire aware of the unreported sub without protesting it? In the WA-OR case, it was very easy for the umpire to see on his line-up card 1+ innings later that the substitution wasn't reported. In OP's case, I think you'd have to make the umpire aware of it before the half-inning was over so the umpire can see the Flex wasn't playing defense. Otherwise, the substitution may not get recorded if the Flex plays defense after that.

"Making a play" does include a pitch. So, if the pitcher was in the game as an unreported sub and strikes out a batter, the offensive coach can request a do-over. Count goes back to x-2, runners reset, pitcher is now in the game, play ball.

NCAA rules are different and the penalties are harsher for unreported/illegal subs in the game.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

"Making a play" does include a pitch. So, if the pitcher was in the game as an unreported sub and strikes out a batter, the offensive coach can request a do-over. Count goes back to x-2, runners reset, pitcher is now in the game, play ball.

As you know, ASA defines "Play" to only include a pitch when it relates to an appeal. ASA's use of "protest" instead of "appeal" for unreported subs, illegal players and ineligible players make it unclear in this case.

NCAA rules are different and the penalties are harsher for unreported/illegal subs in the game.

Okay, is there something under ASA rules that would preclude a coach from achieving what Tarr did?