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Jun 8, 2016
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Yes I understand your point if this was a new radical idea... but it's not, The sample size is much larger than 1 and with all due respect to W=w much more credible hitters than his DD
So Pujols was taught this way when he was 10 YO? I think you are missing my point..

Edit: Whatever doesn't really matter I guess. Glad you have found something which makes sense to you.
 
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Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
@julray,

The only thing that really matters in the end is results. The reason for the post below is that every one of the people I have listed (and more) have hitters that have provided results. Some people agree with their methods. Some disagree. But in the end, if you follow any of these philosophies (or others), and they work for you, I am very happy for you. Personally, I agree with certain aspects and disagree with others. But I have no intention or desire to throw shade on any of them. You mentioned that you don't agree with certain actions being referred to as "feel". What I don't agree with is people that constantly try to run down others (not stating that you are doing this). If someone doesn't care for a certain philosophy, don't follow it...

I have no issue with any of that. In fact, I have no issue with Pujol's demo at all. Never did... If that is what he feels, great. If hitters learn from it, better yet. My only caution is that people need to be careful when applying such "feels". If you only isolate that one element and don't get the other elements right, you are no further ahead. In fact, you could make things worse. The same goes with all the guru stuff. It doesn't matter if you follow Ted Williams, Jack Mankin, or Charley Lau. It doesn't matter if you follow Matt Lisle, Matt Antonelli, or Justin Stone. It doesn't matter if you follow Teacherman, SwingBuilder, or 1ChapterAhead. They each have their own beliefs, and they each tend to break things down in various different ways. It the focus is specifically on one element and the "big picture" is missed, the entire concept will not be understood. That is why I brought up some of the ferris wheel detractors in the other thread. Some people arguing against the ferris wheel are "isolating an element" without "looking at the big picture".
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
So Pujols was taught this way when he was 10 YO? I think you are missing my point..
What are you getting on with, lol? Pujois could of been a shirt hitter when he was 10 yrs old. Are we here to develop bad habits that Pujois may have had at 10, or to replicate what makes him a successful hitter now.
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Pujois could of be a shirt hitter when he was 10 yrs old.
Highly doubt it and it goes back to the comment below from an earlier post of mine:
There are more than likely a few constants between each of them and it probably isn't their hitting instruction at age 10, 12,14, etc..
My point is that while Pujols, Trout, Arod etc seem to have arrived at the same action/feel/whatever, I don't think you can short circuit the developmental process that got them there which probably originated from different teaching philosophies (if they were taught much at all) and which undoubtedly involved lots of reps and a whole lot of talent (two of the constants I mentioned above).
 
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May 12, 2016
4,338
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Highly doubt it and it goes back to the comment below from an earlier post of mine:
Pattar, go ahead and do that the research.. pull up some video of Pujois, Trout and the gang when they were 9-12 years old and we can all take a look at it. Good luck with that. In the meantime I'm going to look at all the thousands of videos now, follow what they are teaching now, look at the demos now, .....what makes them successful right now against the best pitchers in the world. 🤷‍♂️
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Pattar, go ahead and do that the research.. pull up some video of Pujois, Trout and the gang when they were 9-12 years old and we can all take a look at it. Good luck with that. In the meantime I'm going to look at all the thousands of videos now, follow what they are teaching now, look at the demos now, .....what makes them successful right now against the best pitchers in the world. 🤷‍♂️
(y) I wish your DD the best of luck in her upcoming season!!
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
Highly doubt it and it goes back to the comment below from an earlier post of mine:

My point is that while Pujols, Trout, Arod etc seem to have arrived at the same action/feel/whatever, I don't think you can short circuit the developmental process that got them there which probably originated from different teaching philosophies (if they were taught much at all) and which undoubtedly involved lots of reps and a whole lot of talent (two of the constants I mentioned above).
Tell me how you would even develop a plan that involves consolidating Arod, Trout, Pujois etc training routines over the last 20 years to arrive at the type of swing they produce now. Are you saying that our sons/daughters can't replicate a HL swing? That they need to experience the mistakes of these pro hitters that caused them to arrive to the same conclusion before they can replicate it? Sorry, I think you are way down in the weeds with this pattar. I'm not interested. I'm only interested in the wisdom they are sharing now which is a direct result of their learning experiences over the years. I am interested in how they swing the bat now which makes them successful hitters.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
Tell me how you would even develop a plan that involves consolidating Arod, Trout, Pujois etc training routines over the last 20 years to arrive at the type of swing they produce now. Are you saying that our sons/daughters can't replicate a HL swing? That they need to experience the mistakes of these pro hitters that caused them to arrive to the same conclusion before they can replicate it? Sorry, I think you are way down in the weeds with this pattar. I'm not interested. I'm only interested in the wisdom they are sharing now which is a direct result of their learning experiences over the years. I am interested in how they swing the bat now which makes them successful hitters.
(y) I wish your DD the best of luck in her upcoming season....
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
For me ‘down to’ is just to keep the pendulum ‘adjustable’ and commit north/south as late as possible in relation to time, while maintaining a barrel ‘load’. Just like staying inside the ball east and west. If done too much either can be detrimental.. if the hands/barrel drops to initiate the swing, higher pitches will be tough to get to and timing can suffer. Just like outside pitches will be tough to stay on if at first initiation the barrel doesn’t stay in the Sagittal plane. The swing becomes long in both situations.

I personally am of the notion that the swing is a balance of forces where one portion cannot be overdone from another. For example, one cannot simply just rotate towards the dugout. They must rotate to the location of the ball reactively. Adjustability/direction will suffer otherwise. One cannot simply just be ‘down to and inside the ball’ without a balanced engine. Timing and power will suffer. One cannot simply be all hands or all body. There is a blend or a balance to the actions. Does the initial path of the hands work ‘Down to’ ? YES! Does it stay there? No! The hands level to the ball at committal. Then the pendulum ‘swings’ UP in relation to the ground not the body.












Different amounts of ‘down to’ all due to pitch location and the timing of that pendulum ‘swing’.

for me, I preach creating the initiation of hand path deep and from behind the back shoulder. So one can be adjustable to location. It’s the brachistochrone curve in reality. Down to so one is on top with the hands and to the contact point.

like Barry said in the JF video. ‘If the pitch is outside I want my hands here (directed at the plate, straight down). When the pitch is inside , I want to be here (hands directed less down and more towards the pitcher).’ One is shallower than the other. Adjustability. Not every swing should work so deep in relation to the body or the plate. Time should dictate the swing of the pendulum. Not mechanics.

Barry says before that he wants to be in a certain position first. Which to me is way more important than anything. Master that then see where the hands/barrel need work.

Nothing new here to see. Just my take on things. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Ps. Thanks for the kudos P.
 

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