Does the riseball really rise???

[KWright]

Whoa! I just found this board. I will have to take the weekend to read all of the replies to this one and post my 2 cents.

 

[slider201]

Bigdaddy,

Smooth balls do break. Smooth balls can break a lot. Seams can help and/or hinder depending on speed and rpm.

 

[bigdaddy]

Slider,

IF we are just discussing how spin assists in a ball breaking, than the smoother the ball the less the break. The ball breaks because of the differential in air pressure on opposite side of the ball. There are several ways to increase this resistance or pressure differential. If we keep the size, weight and spin rate of the ball constant and the environmental variables the same, then increasing the break can be accomplished by increasing the ball's air resistance (by adding seams for instance).

Keith

 

[halskinner]

Yes, which all points out the absolute necessity of a swing with the minimum time possible from decision to contact while still having reasonable bat speed.

You are betting on on thing being constant; the same pitch speed every time.

Constant changes of speed, from one pitch to the next (and I am talking about MORE than two speeds) gives them one more thing to think about; exactly how fast is THIS pitch coming?

NOW, they have to think about too many things and they do not have the time and I dont care WHO the batter is because they ARE goin down..

 

[Ken Krause]

Hi Ken.

The travel time from the pitcher's hand to the hit zone is normally around 4/10 of a second.

They see it coming and they see it coming on an upwards angle. At around the halfway point of travel they must decide if they are going to swing or not and they have to start that swing.

Before they start their swing, in the first 2/10th of a second, or so, they must also decide if that ball coming up at them is going to stay in the strike zone and get called for a strike or if it is going to climb so high it will be called a ball and they should NOT swing at it.

THEY ARE FORCED TO WATCH THE BALL TRAVEL and that takes time they do not have. They might be good but they aint Superman! It is a matter of time, simple as that. The faster you can throw it, the less time they have to see what they have to, decide on what to do AND do that.

If a pitcher can make a batter think about every pitch they see, the pitcher owns them!

Ok, but if they recognize it's going up, and it doesn't go up quite as much as they thought (based on what we're seeing on video), shouldn't they be swinging over the pitch instead of under it? Or are you saying they're making a decision it will be a high strike and thus they swing at the top of the strike zone (or slightly over it)? Seems like there's more going on than just timing issues.

 

[halskinner]

Ok, but if they recognize it's going up, and it doesn't go up quite as much as they thought (based on what we're seeing on video), shouldn't they be swinging over the pitch instead of under it? Or are you saying they're making a decision it will be a high strike and thus they swing at the top of the strike zone (or slightly over it)? Seems like there's more going on than just timing issues.

Yes, there is more. We also have to remember, we are asking the batter to do something that is almost impossible to do in physics; Hit a fast moving round object with another fast moving round object and hit it flat and make it go straight.

Now add to that, ball starting low and coming in high, think about the angle here. Unless you are fortunate enough to hit the ball perfectly, you will either hit the top or bottom of the bat, pop up or grounder.

To hit it perfectly and drive the ball to the wall, it has to be down to the millisecond.

It is all a question of timing. That is why a pitcher should never allow the batters to get her timing down.

 

[BoardMember]

Establishing Initial Rise/Run (intended path)

 

[Rick Pauly]

Hi Rick,

I concede that your practical experience trumps my theoretical experience!

My thinking was...a smooth ball wouldn't break at all based on spin. The only reason spin causes break IS because the ball has seams.

Keith

In my thought process I was assuming that there are seams on the ball----whether it is a two seam or four seam orientation is less important than if the ball is spinning on a horizontal axis.
I was surprised particularily on the dropball how far down the list seam orientation was-----IMHO. I still believe a pitcher should attempt to get a four seam spin on their vertically moving pitches to maximize movement. Gravity is a wonderful thing when a pitcher uses it to her advantage.
Rick

 

[Rick Pauly]

I am assuming Boardmember is going to post a subsequent clip showing a change in rise/run rate.

In waiting for that I would like to hear from all the X-players/pitchers/catchers that have seen a "real riseball"-----at what point in the balls travel to the plate would you say you saw the "jump" on the ball?

My experience as a former Mens Open hitter and as a Dad that has caught a few riseballs----it happens about 2/3 of the way to the plate. In other words, after the ball has traveled about 25--30 feet.

Would like to hear from others and then get an opinion of why it jumps when it does.

Rick

 

[BoardMember]

Does it rise off it's intended line?

See if you can pick out the sudden rise/run rate increase. IMO, it happens early in the sequence when the velocity/spin rates are the greatest: