Deltoid / Rear Hip Iso Drill Revisited

[mkral]

Ok I understand what you guys are doing. I have tried to use it with my girls. Some get it and some don't. I wish I would have video taped it but I did not. My question I guess is more towards FFS's deltiod drill but anyone who has been instructing sure can weigh in. In your Deltoid drill do you have them pin the bat against their shoulder and the fire their hips and upper torso? I ask this because I had two girls in particular that really could not get it and they absolutely do not use their hips. They just turn and are all arms.

What I did, right or wrong, was this. I had them get into an athletic balanced stance (via Howards standards) then I had them pin the bat on the side of their upper arm, palm up, palm down. I told them they needed to turn only their hips and upper torso together fast then getting close to contact release their wrists. I used some resistance by holding the bat while they put pressure on it by trying to turn so they felt the explosion of their hip turn and torso turn. The bat really flew at contact when they did it right. Both of the girls looked at me and smiled like "I get it" when they did it right. We then went on to dry swings and it looked like it sank in some. More time doing this will be needed but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

I absolutely am no hitting instructor. So I really want to know if this is an alright thing for me to be doing with these girls or not. I need to get them to feel it and repeat it and I could not seem to get through to them any other way.

Thanks for the help!
Mike

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

In your Deltoid drill do you have them pin the bat against their shoulder and the fire their hips

Yes.

[...] and upper torso?

No.

I ask this because I had two girls in particular that really could not get it and they absolutely do not use their hips. They just turn and are all arms.

That is exactly what this drill is intended to promote ... that is, not using the arms. Using the hips ... you thrust/twist from below to bring the barrel to contact WITH a "barrel to the ball" mentality. That is why Tewks performed a "stop swing" in his demo ... he stopped at jut/contact to demonstrate that the swing was NOT armsy.

Tewks recently did an excellent video on the concept of taking the "barrel to the ball" ... and not taking the "hands to the ball".

Perhaps Tewks will share that here.

Bottom-line ... you want to break the habit of "hands to the ball" and encourage a habit of "barrel to the ball".

Let's see if Tewks will post his "barrel to the ball" video. If he does, I think it will clear up a lot of questions for you. I'll also try to take video of some hitters doing the drill this weekend.

I had them get into an athletic balanced stance (via Howards standards)

Be careful here ... the "athletic posture" is not that of a basketball player. I believe Howard recently commented on this. You can kill the swing right here if you aren't careful.

I told them they needed to turn only their hips and upper torso together fast then getting close to contact release their wrists

As with all drills ... I recommend you try it out yourself first. I will first work on a drill myself for days, or weeks, or months, and in one case almost 2yrs, before introducing it to a hitting group. I do this to learn the "feel".

Consider telling them to perform their normal swing ... with the exception of starting from the Deltoid position (vertical forearm) and the bat pinned to their deltoid. Simply swing while "attempting" to hold the barrel against the deltoid until you turn the corner.

I'll try to video it on a student today or tomorrow. It may come out flawed depending on who I pick, but it will get the point across.

I told them they needed to turn only their hips and upper torso together fast then getting close to contact release their wrists

No!! Turning the hips & upper torso together is exactly what you DO NOT want. That would be a gated swing.

Recall ... I followed up and commented what Tewks didn't show in his demonstration was the "tilt".

In this drill you should be thinking of the lower body ... especially the rear hip, but also the rear upper leg & even the lower core, forcefully thrusting/rotating the body forward. You want to obtain hip/shoulder spatial separation ... you wan the hips to fire ahead of the shoulders and the shoulders to be pulled forward by the hips.

I used some resistance by holding the bat while they put pressure on it by trying to turn so they felt the explosion of their hip turn and torso turn. The bat really flew at contact when they did it right. Both of the girls looked at me and smiled like "I get it" when they did it right. We then went on to dry swings and it looked like it sank in some. More time doing this will be needed but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

This sounds like Tewks' Rear Hip Isolation Drill. I had success with it. It's a good drill.

I absolutely am no hitting instructor. So I really want to know if this is an alright thing for me to be doing with these girls or not. I need to get them to feel it and repeat it and I could not seem to get through to them any other way.

I may have this incorrect ... and if so, I encourage someone to pipe up.

The Deltoid Drill is one of Mike Epstein's 3 main drills. In other words, Mike considers this drill important enough to classify as a big percentage of his emphasis.

My point ... I'm not the only one that sees this drill as largely beneficial. I especially like it as part of a Progression Drill ... but I also use it as a warm-up drill before taking BP.

 

[mkral]

Thanks FFS!! We are getting close to our opener and have some girls lagging behind. What some of you guys are showing right now is really helping me get the message to my girls and I know it will make them a better hitting team. I really appreciate what you guys are doing!!

Mike

 

[mkral]

I get that and agree. What I am having trouble with is when I tell them or ask them to drive their rear hip they rotate without ever bringing their shoulders/upper torso through and quit. That was the only reason I had both of them try to lock their core down and fire pretty much together. I did not think about it being a gated swing and you are absolutely correct. I am not sure how to get them to fire their hips and bring their upper torso right behind it. For some reason both of these girls have trouble doing it. If I am understanding it all correctly we are only talking milliseconds between hips and shoulder/torso rotation. Correct? If not you could rotate your lower half completely without ever bringing your upper torso at all.

Please bear with me I am just trying to learn from all of you guys so I can relay it to my girls to make them a better.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

What I am having trouble with is when I tell them or ask them to drive their rear hip they rotate without ever bringing their shoulders/upper torso through and quit.

Mkral … this doesn’t add up to me.

Let me explain. If the hip rotates to end up roughly square to the pitcher, then there will come a point when the hips will pull the upper torso forward.

That was the only reason I had both of them try to lock their core down and fire pretty much together.

IMO … firing the upper torso & hips together is a bad idea … and it will take away a significant source of force generation.

I am not sure how to get them to fire their hips and bring their upper torso right behind it. For some reason both of these girls have trouble doing it.

This, the hips rotating forward ahead of the shoulders, is considered to be the second biggest source of force generation in the elite-level swing.

You obtain this not through conscious effort, but by having the sequence correct. When the sequence is correct, this will occur naturally.

If I am understanding it all correctly we are only talking milliseconds between hips and shoulder/torso rotation. Correct? If not you could rotate your lower half completely without ever bringing your upper torso at all.

Don’t fall into the trap of assuming that because the time period is short, that the actions aren’t important. That isn’t even remotely close to true. If you fail to build in a sequence that naturally realizes well timed dynamic hip/shoulder spatial separation, then you will fail to build the second biggest source of force generation into your player’s swing.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Mkral ... here are two examples of the Deltoid Drill as I instruct it ... one is a stop-swing version ... the other is a full-swing version.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Probably obvious … but IMO the rear forearm should be more vertical in the starting position … more like in Tewks’ demonstration.

 

[RayR]

Mkral ... here are two examples of the Deltoid Drill as I instruct it ... one is a stop-swing version ... the other is a full-swing version.

Are you hoping that this develop into a better lower body flow? There is a point where both heels are planted. IMO, a better flow will increase the spatial separation you are looking for.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Are you hoping that this develop into a better lower body flow? There is a point where both heels are planted. IMO, a better flow will increase the spatial separation you are looking for.

The hope is to focus on the rear hip thrust. Still too much desire for this kid to use their upper body.

 

[RayR]

Rear hip thrust is fine, but if it mis timed does it help coordinate the swing?