Defensive measuring stick

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BigSkyHi

All I know is I don't know
Jan 13, 2020
1,385
113
Defense is an area of the game that a coach truly can dictate the eventual outcome of the game. Its far and away the most important aspect of softball or baseball. In close games you can always guarantee and error or bad read coat you the game

Videos and drills will never help a player learn defense. You cant just drum up a defensive strategy. You have to have a coach that understands what they have on the field
Interested in what age groups you are talking about?
 
Nov 30, 2018
359
43
Marikina, Philippines
There was a thread that referred to college coaches changing hitting styles of players they recruited with mostly bad results. The thread seemed to send the message that there are multiple ways to hit well and that actual performance is the measuring stick. This got me to thinking, does this happen with defensive technique also?

I am a HS coach and I’ve spent dozens of hours studying defenders and how they position themselves, react, field, their footwork, and throwing motion. There appears to be a pretty consistent technique once players get to college. However, in HS and TB (with exceptions) defensive technique appears to be an afterthought as long as the defender makes most of the plays. Worse yet the players unknowingly believe that if they made a play, that they must have done it correctly.

When I attend local tournaments (Non-showcase U10-U18) among other things I see players who:

Are unprepared to field a ball hit their way
Don’t get to balls they should
Cannot back hand a ground ball
Don’t turn sideways to throw routine outs
Take 4-6 steps toward where they throw it
Outfielders who have a hard time fielding ground balls
This is all technique which can be taught, yet it appears that it is largely ignored in favor of offense.
At U10-U18 is actual performance the defensive measuring stick or is there none?

One comment which may not be too popular is I think coaches should question every baseball technic to see if it fits the time constraints of fastpitch. Backhand technic or form is one issue, as extra steps are an common in baseball. We had a second baseman from Maryland, a 100% Filipina, who did not use a cross-over step. Why I do not know. I only train skills here, do clinics etc., advise strategies in games. We had a 2B from Arizona. The head coach liked the other girl's arm better. He took Candrea's player off 2B and put the other girl there. Because of poor footwork, that girl had poor range. Somehow the coach was worried more about the difference of their arms in 1st & 3rd situations and DP's than he was other elements. I once saw the second girl go after a slow ground ball up the middle about 10 feet her side of 2B. She actually moved her feet about 6-7 feet toward the ball, dove or fell, and was 18 feet from the ball. A normal 2B, in particular the first girl from Arizona, would have gotten to the ball easily, but her legs were like from 2 different horse colts. How can this happen at the D1 level? How can it happen in TB?

There was a time when viewing 16u and 18u tournaments that I saw regional differences in fielding skills. There was a significant gap between California/west coast skills and the Midwest. I think that gap is closing, but even so, there is not enough coaching of proper technic. And I feel the only limiting factor is athleticism, not individualism. I recently saw an 18u tournament while visiting the VA hospital in Madison, WI. I was disappointed with a lot. There was talent! But their slapping skills, and fielding technics were poor. Yet the two coaches I talked to (never mentioned my opinions) were so arrogant and defensive. I can assure you they will never be what they think they are. I see the same thing here in the Philippines. 90% of the coaches don't care if their player has the opportunity to play on the National teams. What they care about is "their property". If they got a fielding video secretly from Antonelli, I think the majority would erase it. Some might view it privately, and be tormented by the idea of change. There is some of that in the US. There are some open minded though. I saw little advanced footwork, preparation, or technic in these girls fielding. Do the coaches know? If not, why not? No one is keeping secrets.
 
Last edited:
May 23, 2015
999
63
Interested in what age groups you are talking about?
All age groups boys and girls. Now i only coach old folks. I do have a 14yo who's the younger sister of a player I work with.

I started coaching girls and boys at 8u.

What about you?
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
I also work with teams if I have time. Thats a lot fun. Its like have a friend with a cat. You can fight with it, but leave whenever you wish
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,855
113
I don't buy into a statement that in HS ball, a team doesn't have time to work on fielding fundamentals. In fact, if a practice is planned appropriately, imo, fundamental fielding is something players start with each practice after they get their throwing program in. An example, OF to OF and infield to infield. Middle Infielders should have a set of fundamentals to start with including fielding a ball with the hand behind the back. From there, we do things like dead leg throws, pivots, fielding adjustments, footwork is a major part of this. 1B and 3B are working together. The coach is bouncing between the two and another coach is doing OF. In our program, the HC is overseeing the whole process. We have a former D-1 pitcher who is in her college hall of fame who shows up and then she takes the pitchers when she gets there. It is a well oiled machine.
 

BigSkyHi

All I know is I don't know
Jan 13, 2020
1,385
113
All age groups boys and girls. Now i only coach old folks. I do have a 14yo who's the younger sister of a player I work with.

I started coaching girls and boys at 8u.

What about you?
Just do some individual instruction. Gave up coaching a long time ago and managing before that.

Your statement " In close games you can always guarantee and error or bad read coat you the game" caused me to wonder if the scores were always 14-13 or 3-2.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
There was a time when viewing 16u and 18u tournaments that I saw regional differences in fielding skills. There was a significant gap between California/west coast skills and the Midwest. I think that gap is closing, but even so, there is not enough coaching of proper technic. And I feel the only limiting factor is athleticism, not individualism. I recently saw an 18u tournament while visiting the VA hospital in Madison, WI. I was disappointed with a lot. There was talent! But their slapping skills, and fielding technics were poor. Yet the two coaches I talked to (never mentioned my opinions) were so arrogant and defensive. I can assure you they will never be what they think they are. I see the same thing here in the Philippines. 90% of the coaches don't care if their player has the opportunity to play on the National teams. What they care about is "their property". If they got a fielding video secretly from Antonelli, I think the majority would erase it. Some might view it privately, and be tormented by the idea of change. There is some of that in the US. There are some open minded. I was in Dallas, TX for some days and was asked to work with a pitcher on Adkins Gold I think they are called. Only about 8 lessons. I was sitting in front of 4 other 18u coaches who didn't know who I was. They were talking about her changes. I am not saying this to brag or otherwise. But they were open. So those coaches do exist. But then again, I saw little advanced footwork, preparation, or technic in these girls fielding. Do the coaches know? If not, why not? No one is keeping secrets.
I played MI in college and didn't do a "fielding drill" till I got there and even that was limited. However what I did do was take A LOT of GB growing up and also watched a lot of games and tried to emulate. There was no internet and my main "instructor" was my father who didn't do drills growing up, he played sandlot ball all day. So he didn't do any drills with me. Times have changed, there is a lot of good information out there now which can be very useful if you know what to look for (which can be an issue for some parents..I understand that). I found that I knew what a good fielder looked like but didn't necessarily know how to to explain it well other than to show my kid "this is how you do it" which isn't necessarily the best way to teach somebody. So I went looking for information and it has been very helpful in developing my DD imo.
 
Last edited:
Nov 30, 2018
359
43
Marikina, Philippines
Hitting 'macho' shots with a fungo to young ones is not a coach. So many don't recognize you need to instruct at the level of the kids.



The prevailing theory here is, run more miles, hit the ball at them harder, practice more hours, yell more! That is the definition of coaching in the Philippines. And one last point about your excellent point: COACH THEM FROM WHERE THEY ARE AT, NOT FROM WHERE YOU WANT THEM TO BE! You can't approach training with the idea that Betty must be Betts!
 
Last edited:
Jun 26, 2020
204
28
One comment which may not be too popular is I think coaches should question every baseball technic to see if it fits the time constraints of fastpitch. Backhand technic or form is one issue. Extra steps are an issue in baseball. We had a second baseman from Maryland, a 100% Filipina, who did not use a cross-over step. Why I do not know. I only train skills here, do clinics etc., advise strategies in games. We had a 2B from Arizona. The head coach liked the other girl's arm better. He took Candrea's player off 2B and put the other girl there. Because of poor footwork, she had poor range. Somehow the coach was worried more about the difference of their arms in 1st & 3rd situations and dp's than he was other elements. I once saw the first girl go after a slow ground ball up the middle about 10 feet her side of 2B. She actually moved her feet about 6-7 feet toward the ball, dove or fell, and was 18 feet from the ball. A normal 2B would have gotten to the ball easily, but her legs were like from 2 different horse colts. How can this happen at the D1 level? How can it happen in TB?

There was a time when viewing 16u and 18u tournaments that I saw regional differences in fielding skills. There was a significant gap between California/west coast skills and the Midwest. I think that gap is closing, but even so, there is not enough coaching of proper technic. And I feel the only limiting factor is athleticism, not individualism. I recently saw an 18u tournament while visiting the VA hospital in Madison, WI. I was disappointed with a lot. There was talent! But their slapping skills, and fielding technics were poor. Yet the two coaches I talked to (never mentioned my opinions) were so arrogant and defensive. I can assure you they will never be what they think they are. I see the same thing here in the Philippines. 90% of the coaches don't care if their player has the opportunity to play on the National teams. What they care about is "their property". If they got a fielding video secretly from Antonelli, I think the majority would erase it. Some might view it privately, and be tormented by the idea of change. There is some of that in the US. There are some open minded though. I saw little advanced footwork, preparation, or technic in these girls fielding. Do the coaches know? If not, why not? No one is keeping secrets.
Nice resume'. I was checking out your profile. Blu Girls coach?

The Philippines will be a FP powerhouse in the next decade. I spend a lot of time there for business.

You post along with several others here is spot on. Defense and skills are lacking. We're regressing. Hopefully we pull it together
 
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