DD's opening front shoulder.

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Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
You're misinterpreting early. Get the barrel on plane early in space, but later in time. Getting the barrel on plane early (deep) allows you to swing later, commit later, and keep the barrel on plane for a longer distance.

Adjustability is not required because you can see more of the pitch and commit later + Timing offspeed is less of an issue because the bat stays on the ball path longer + Faster bat speed = The less need for perfection.

As for adjustability, are you saying with a crack the whip swing you can change the target of the swing after launching the swing?

Keep the barrel up and you'll swing down across the path of the ball. Less than perfect timing will result in pop ups and ground balls.

I know exactly what you mean. You want to hit everything deep in the zone. Back the ball up. You want to wait as long as possible. You think it’s an advantage. You think your seeing the ball longer right?

If hitting a fastball deep is optimal. How do you adjust to a change up when you committed the barrel so soon for the fastball? That’s getting the barrel on plane early. But later in time and early in space. Remember you said the arms/hands aren’t used, it’s about the shoulders correct? Doesn’t sound so good eh?


answer: you cant. Once the barrel gets below the hands there is no more adjusting. It’s ‘go to the ball’ time. YOU want instant go to the ball time. No adjustments can be made. This can work at the lower levels. Not against good pitching though.






Notice the barrel get on plane late? Last 2 frames maybe? Notice the barrel out of plane until then? Notice the hands plane early? This is why pros say they ‘swing down’. Wherever the knob goes the barrel will follow. It’s a pendulum. Don’t give up the pendulum early. It’s not adjustable.
 
Nov 16, 2017
406
63
Donaldson says "and now I am firing my back shoulder, back hip to this ball right here." I agree with the idea of driving your back shoulder to the ball and staying connected as long as possible. Hands should be a fine tune adjustment only and at the very last moment.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
This is a lot different



than this. JD rotates into the ball. Pete strikes the ball







Pete knows. But more importantly Pete matches.

Some like that one piece swing. Not what the best do/did. One piece limits adjustability and force production.
 
Nov 16, 2017
406
63
This is a lot different



than this. JD rotates into the ball. Pete strikes the ball







Pete knows. But more importantly Pete matches.

Some like that one piece swing. Not what the best do/did. One piece limits adjustability and force production.


I think you are seeing things that aren't there. Like staring at a cloud long enough and you swear it looks like Abraham Lincoln. If you freeze frame the Donaldson pick and Pete's pick at the point of contact they are basically identical considering pitch location.

Screen Shot 2019-12-04 at 5.07.17 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-04 at 5.07.33 PM.png

Are we arguing over intent? It seems like there could be many different ways to skin the cat here. If Pete's intent is to "strike" the ball but it gets him to this spot and JD intent is to "rotate into the ball" and it gets him to this point why is either of them wrong? Seems like both could be right but just a different view point.
 
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Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
I think you are seeing things that aren't there. Like staring at a cloud long enough and you swear it looks like Abraham Lincoln. If you freeze frame the Donaldson pick and Pete's pick at the point of contact they are basically identical considering pitch location.

View attachment 15744
View attachment 15745

Are we arguing over intent? It seems like there could be many different ways to skin the cat here. If Pete's intent is to "strike" the ball but it gets him to this spot and JD intent is to "rotate into the ball" and it gets him to this point why is either of them wrong? Seems like both could be right but just a different view point.

FYI: Using stills is probably the worst way to analyze anything swing related. Just sayin.

The way they both got to contact and the intent they use is from 2 different patterns.

When I say ‘strike’ the ball, I’m speaking of release of the top hand with intent. Not turning the barrel with the body through the ball. Or pushing the hands through to hit everything oppo.

I think there are many ways to get it done. I’m just a fan of the HOF pattern.

Josh explains that he wants to ‘catch the ball in a turn’ a carousel approach. Pete’s intent is much different. He’s trying to stay inside and release the head into the ball via the hands.



See the difference now?

Some call it getting the ‘head out’. Some say ‘throw the head’, ‘release the barrel’, ‘swing like an axe’, ‘whip the barrel’. You get the idea. JD is not trying to do that. Like you said he’s trying to get the back shoulder to the ball. Or something to that extent. Either way not the same.
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
James,

Like you said, the hands make last minute adjustments. So why should we deaden the hands so we can turn into the ball with our back shoulder?
 
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal


Everybody's hands move in an arc. It may "feel" like straight/ short to the ball but it is not. Even on this low (Pete) and away pitch (which a straighter hand path will occur) if you had the overhead gif of that swing, his hands would arc.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa


Everybody's hands move in an arc. It may "feel" like straight/ short to the ball but it is not. Even on this low (Pete) and away pitch (which a straighter hand path will occur) if you had the overhead gif of that swing, his hands would arc.


Careful your going to destroy his entire belief system and his pseudoscience.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I think there are many ways to get it done. I’m just a fan of the HOF pattern.
Come on @Work=wins you get on a certain somebody for saying his methods are a match and then you say this. This isn't mathematics, you cannot prove that what you are ascribing to is what "HOF'ers do" anymore than that other person can prove that what he teaches is a match to the "HOF'ers" You do a pretty good job of explaining what you teach (a lot better than when you first started on here) so just leave it at that.

As an aside, similar to what JD was saying, Bonds said he felt like his swing was a catch of sorts (I think there is even a drill out there used by him where he actually catches a ball). Then again he isn't a HOF'er...:p
 
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