DD's opening front shoulder.

[Bobby Shirer]

Exactly ! Just how much time do you think you have up there to accelerate ? Force in small windows is the equation. Not max force. Why do you think you are seeing max strike outs from this approach. But I think you said ‘swing for the fences every time’ , and that’s fine. But it doesn’t match what the best do. These are my goal posts.

That takes longer to get to max speed. Anyone can swing harder or faster. That doesn’t make it is efficient. The higher up you go, the harder that approach is.

You know your DD swings it faster than mlb guys? Law of diminishing returns? Or does your dd have a better swing than the pros? As long as the pitching is average to mediocre that approach plays.

Did you hear Barry Bonds in that video ? It’s about being short, don’t breakdown the problem.

As I said, you'll never get it.
As for average MLB bat speed, Blast Motion Lead Biomechanist/Algorithm Developer Patrick Cherveny puts it this way:

“Swing speed’s a very important metric, because it ultimately determines how fast the ball’s going to come off the bat,” said Cherveny. “The faster that you swing, the more likely that you will achieve a higher exit velocity, which will more often result in successful outcomes. Major League Baseball has put an increased emphasis on exit velocity and launch angle as two primary metrics for assessing players, and that’s already filtered down to hitting coaches who work with younger players. There’s a big emphasis on trying to maximize exit velocity and launch angle. If you don’t have a high swing speed, you’re going to limit your ability to have a high exit velocity.”
"There’s a lot of variables, but the biggest one is just the strength of the athlete,” added Cherveny. “With a more rotational swing, you could have a younger player that could actually move up into a higher swing speed class, but that gets down to the efficiency of the swing. Somebody who has a very rotationally efficient swing can generally produce higher swing speeds than somebody who doesn’t. So you can easily see kids in travel or high school baseball, 15 to 18 years old, who have swing speeds approaching the 80s. We see it all the time..."

"Force production" and "efficiency" are terms you use all the time but you are clueless about how to do it.
Your approach is based on neither science nor actual real swings. Your classic answer is, "Some mlb guy says it," and that's just hearsay.
If you want to continue to preach the concepts you promote, please stop using those terms and start referring to "putting the ball in play" and "move the runner" as those will be more in line with your theory.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

First of all, The term launch angle is stupid and only stupid people keep using it as a term to describe a swing. A ground ball, a bunt, has a launch angle. It can be negative. Every hit has a launch angle. Attack angle is the correct term and it should be around 10 degrees. Otherwise known as slightly up. Slightly up is not something you generate, it is a natural outcome of the correct bat path.

WE SHOULD TEACH CORRECT BAT PATH PERIOD.

Sure swing down is a proper feel, but it needs to be swing down FROM BEHIND. Like hitting a golf ball. The feeling of swinging down is real but is needs to be applied correctly, not the chop chop ARod is showing. NOONE with any credibility is teaching an uppercut swing. That labeling by the old school chop the ball ARod type instructors is a classic massive exaggeration used to try to discredit the fact the homeruns and extra base hits are hit by bats the are moving slightly up. Sure you can swing down, but the bat path is circular so eventually the bat will come up. Imagine that!! As if the two concepts are mutually exclusive. Yes you can swing down and hit the ball up. Crazy right?

Who would you take W=w? A guy who hits .315 with 8HRs or a guy who hits .265 with 40HRs and a bunch more doubles and triples. Old school thought was batting average is tops, but due to the way pitching has changed give me the .265 guy everytime. The math will tell you the .265 guy is more valuable.

So the beginning of the swing is down and if you are thinking swing up from the beginning a lot of bad things will happen. No one is disputing that. It is also ignorant to leave it at that. It has to be down, but down the right way. And if you really understand you will teach them by swinging down the right way it will end up hitting the ball slightly up.

To conclude, the butt hurt ARod as it seems on every single video he is in keeps talking "launch angle this, and that" shows how woefully ignorant he is and all the people that think that way. They just want to be haters, uneducated haters that are so closed minded that they can't even tolerate a different view point. Actual smart people don't do this. They know their oppositions points sometimes better than their opposition. Keep your friend close and your enemies closer. I fully understand the ARod viewpoint. He is teaching a feel. And feel is a very real and important part of hitting. But he is either blind or stupid when watching films of even himself that completely contradict what he says. Feel vs Real is REAL. It is a shame a lot of people are inexplicably not able to grasp it.

Well said!

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Maxes out at 95 mph??? Exit speed???

94mph, my bad.
Bat speed as recorded on a Zepp sensor.
She was recorded by a radar gun in a game with a 100.6 exit speed but I don't know how accurate that was. The radar gun was aimed at the pitch and she hit it back at the pitcher. (Freaking scary)
I'm trying to get her on a Hit Trax over the Christmas break.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Pitching changes have changed batting. A starter used to pitch 7 innings. Now they sometimes don't even get 5 in. Relievers pitch about 1 inning and sometimes just a couple of batters. The reason they are playing less innings is because they are throwing harder, way harder. Throwing harder gets more strikeouts. Due to the higher strikeouts players have to really cash in when they do hit. What good is hitting a single and nobody can get you home. Batters and coaches know that they need to do damage. In the old days players used to have different swings. A homerun swing and contact swing. Their 2 strike swing was different. You don't see that anymore and it is not because of "launch angle". It is because pitching changes have changed the game and batters have responded.

Years ago there wasn't the wide availability of video motion capture.
Those guys did what they did and used the words they heard others say to describe what they felt.
Most didn't swing as hard as they could because they weren't sure what to emphasize. (except for Ted who BTW still owns the highest batting average proving that the 2 aren't mutually exclusive)
We have evolved and now through video, computer analysis, doppler radar, and application of physics, some players are coached to focus on the things that will actually make a difference.
....and the pitching is different.

 

[Work=wins]

First of all, The term launch angle is stupid and only stupid people keep using it as a term to describe a swing. A ground ball, a bunt, has a launch angle. It can be negative. Every hit has a launch angle. Attack angle is the correct term and it should be around 10 degrees. Otherwise known as slightly up. Slightly up is not something you generate, it is a natural outcome of the correct bat path.

WE SHOULD TEACH CORRECT BAT PATH PERIOD.

Sure swing down is a proper feel, but it needs to be swing down FROM BEHIND. Like hitting a golf ball. The feeling of swinging down is real but is needs to be applied correctly, not the chop chop ARod is showing. NOONE with any credibility is teaching an uppercut swing. That labeling by the old school chop the ball ARod type instructors is a classic massive exaggeration used to try to discredit the fact the homeruns and extra base hits are hit by bats the are moving slightly up. Sure you can swing down, but the bat path is circular so eventually the bat will come up. Imagine that!! As if the two concepts are mutually exclusive. Yes you can swing down and hit the ball up. Crazy right?

Who would you take W=w? A guy who hits .315 with 8HRs or a guy who hits .265 with 40HRs and a bunch more doubles and triples. Old school thought was batting average is tops, but due to the way pitching has changed give me the .265 guy everytime. The math will tell you the .265 guy is more valuable.

So the beginning of the swing is down and if you are thinking swing up from the beginning a lot of bad things will happen. No one is disputing that. It is also ignorant to leave it at that. It has to be down, but down the right way. And if you really understand you will teach them by swinging down the right way it will end up hitting the ball slightly up.

To conclude, the butt hurt ARod as it seems on every single video he is in keeps talking "launch angle this, and that" shows how woefully ignorant he is and all the people that think that way. They just want to be haters, uneducated haters that are so closed minded that they can't even tolerate a different view point. Actual smart people don't do this. They know their oppositions points sometimes better than their opposition. Keep your friend close and your enemies closer. I fully understand the ARod viewpoint. He is teaching a feel. And feel is a very real and important part of hitting. But he is either blind or stupid when watching films of even himself that completely contradict what he says. Feel vs Real is REAL. It is a shame a lot of people are inexplicably not able to grasp it.

The term was born because they are trying to increase their LA to get the ball in the air. It’s common knowledge.

I 100% agree about bat path. Fundamentally keeping the barrel up would give the proper learning curve to keeping barrel ‘up’ or flatter through the zone more then any other way imo. We definitely don’t want to teach an ‘up’ through path right?

But things such things as balance and sequence have to be right for the path to be right so teaching a proper path isn’t so easy.

Personally I want the guy who has better barrel control. Who can use the whole field. If denfensively they are equal. Jmo.

Some guru said knob to nose and rearward back and up through and the ‘Ferris wheel’ was born as well as the ‘LA’ swing. It was folks just twisting Teds words as well. Ted didnt swing up. Ted just preferred an out front contact point. I think most do.



Arod is just telling folks that the physical cue for him was swing down, never up. Sure he isn’t as versed in the nuances of what video shows us. He has probably been showed some ‘knob to nose’ gifs etc. and made an opinionated statement, thinking that’s the ‘LA’ swing. Well cuz it looks like an ‘LA’ swing right?

 

[Work=wins]

As I said, you'll never get it.
As for average MLB bat speed, Blast Motion Lead Biomechanist/Algorithm Developer Patrick Cherveny puts it this way:

“Swing speed’s a very important metric, because it ultimately determines how fast the ball’s going to come off the bat,” said Cherveny. “The faster that you swing, the more likely that you will achieve a higher exit velocity, which will more often result in successful outcomes. Major League Baseball has put an increased emphasis on exit velocity and launch angle as two primary metrics for assessing players, and that’s already filtered down to hitting coaches who work with younger players. There’s a big emphasis on trying to maximize exit velocity and launch angle. If you don’t have a high swing speed, you’re going to limit your ability to have a high exit velocity.”
"There’s a lot of variables, but the biggest one is just the strength of the athlete,” added Cherveny. “With a more rotational swing, you could have a younger player that could actually move up into a higher swing speed class, but that gets down to the efficiency of the swing. Somebody who has a very rotationally efficient swing can generally produce higher swing speeds than somebody who doesn’t. So you can easily see kids in travel or high school baseball, 15 to 18 years old, who have swing speeds approaching the 80s. We see it all the time..."

"Force production" and "efficiency" are terms you use all the time but you are clueless about how to do it.
Your approach is based on neither science nor actual real swings. Your classic answer is, "Some mlb guy says it," and that's just hearsay.
If you want to continue to preach the concepts you promote, please stop using those terms and start referring to "putting the ball in play" and "move the runner" as those will be more in line with your theory.

Law of diminishing returns. Too much speed without efficiency is worthless. If it takes 6 frames or more to get to the ball at a decent level of play you won’t be consistent. You will have to commit sooner and get fooled more.

But chase the speed component because a guy from the sensor you bought says so. Of course he will say that. He’s selling you something Bobby!! LOL. Your arguments are weak dude.

Dismiss every pro to do it and that keep doing it. How is it hearsay when they are saying it? LOL.

You didn’t raise an eyebrow or think a bit when you were told your kids batspeed is way higher than the pros? Nothing fishy there? You sure?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Law of diminishing returns. Too much speed without efficiency is worthless. If it takes 6 frames or more to get to the ball at a decent level of play you won’t be consistent. You will have to commit sooner and get fooled more.

But chase the speed component because a guy from the sensor you bought says so. Of course he will say that. He’s selling you something Bobby!! LOL. Your arguments are weak dude.

Dismiss every pro to do it and that keep doing it. How is it hearsay when they are saying it? LOL.

You didn’t raise an eyebrow or think a bit when you were told your kids batspeed is way higher than the pros? Nothing fishy there? You sure?

No eyebrows raised because I've seen how far she hits the ball..... and then there's that pesky physics thing.....but that's waaaay over your head.
You can't even quantify how long 6 frames is! 30fps, 60fps, 240fps, 1000fps.? Lol
Extra batspeed is the result of efficiency. Extra batspeed also grants forgiveness in miss hits.
Once again, you've shown that not capable of understanding so stick to teaching hitting ground balls to second base.

 

[Work=wins]

No eyebrows raised because I've seen how far she hits the ball..... and then there's that pesky physics thing.....but that's waaaay over your head.
You can't even quantify how long 6 frames is! 30fps, 60fps, 240fps, 1000fps.? Lol
Extra batspeed is the result of efficiency. Extra batspeed also grants forgiveness in miss hits.
Once again, you've shown that not capable of understanding so stick to teaching hitting ground balls to second base.

Ok Bobby. Go ahead and shift gears and make things up. More bat speed means more forgiveness on mishits? More bat speed means more efficiency? People on here aren’t stupid dude. You are desperate. Hit ground balls to second base? When have I said that?

 

[Shawn]

I just want to say that you can have a higher batspeed and not an efficient swing. You can have a high batspeed and not a very good swing.

 

[Shawn]

Shawn, I love the heavy bag!
A suggestion. .... don't work on being quick. Instead, have her throw the barrel away from the ball/bag as hard as she can. Tell her to use the rest if her body to redirect the barrel to the bag. Don't overcoach it except to tell her to throw the barrel as hard as she can. (big bat tip) Work on it some until her body and brain figure it out (incredible machine). Then check the Blast sensor. Let me know.

I had a batspeed device many, many, years ago before I learned more about the swing. You just don't try to swing for max batspeed, unless you want a long swing.