Daughter's pitching coach wants to teach the curve before the drop - thoughts?

[wheresmycar]

Obviously you either haven't coached a higher level TB team or been a part of one. I have 3 pitchers that I consider to have 3-4 pitches each. They hit their spots 8 out of 10 times with all of them and when they are on with a particular pitch, better than that. By hitting their spots, I mean the actual corner that is called, either for a ball that is called 1 or 2 balls off the plate, or a strike. BTW, I don't call the pitches. I actually start teaching my catchers to do it at the 12U level. Occasionally I make a suggestion but not often, unless they get themselves into trouble/situations that could cost us the game.

Oh, my bad, we are using different definitions of "spot hitting". That is truly higher level. Carry on.

 

[Hillhouse]

Understanding the old adage, 'Even a blind squirrel finds a nut...", nobody, MLB included, hits a good breaking ball. Lots of hangers and rollers get hammered. But good ones, not so much.
As your dd's PC why. If there is something in you dd's delivery that will make a curve quick and easy, or more effective to get that may be the reason why.

With all due respect, I don't think comparing a curve in baseball is the same as one in softball. In baseball, a good curveball not only curves but it drops. This is due to both the spin applied and the pitcher being elevated. Moreover, due to the twist of the wrist in baseball curves, the speed of the pitch is significantly slower. Sometimes as much as 15 mph slower. So, the speed change has as much to do with someone looking silly in baseball as does the break of the pitch.

While there are "off speed" curves in softball, the overwhelming majority of pitchers throwing a curve are not taking significant speed off the ball.

I realize people are going to do whatever they want anyway so trying to change people's minds is usually futile. But, here's another perspective. If a hitter is up to bat and looking for a dropball, yet a rise is thrown... the hitter will probably swing/miss looking somewhat silly. If the hitter is looking for a rise but, instead sees a drop, they too will look silly. Now, suspend for a minute the fallacy that is a screwball and lets just all agree that the ball ends up inside (RHP vs. RHB). So a "screwball" goes inside, a curve goes outside. The batter is now up to bat and looking for a "screwball" but instead sees a curve. USUALLY SPEAKING the ball is delivered on the same plane, which is where the swing SHOULD be. So, in all likelihood, the batter should make contact. But you can't say that for the North/South pitches. Batters look silly when prepping for a riseball and swing way over top of the drop. Now we can debate how much contact someone will make when looking for a curve but seeing a "screwball" but the point is they will still be swinging on the same plane as the ball. In 2021 we've all seen hot bats and rock hard balls that only take contact to pop it over the fence. Balls don't have to be crushed anymore for homeruns. I hope that wasn't too confusing.

 

[slowcelica]

If your DD has 12-6 spin, isn’t her fastball a drop? When my DD learned that pitch, her pitching coach just had her put her weight more forward when landing.

 

[sluggers]

If your DD has 12-6 spin, isn’t her fastball a drop? When my DD learned that pitch, her pitching coach just had her put her weight more forward when landing.

The baseball curve ball is the same as the softball drop ball.

Depending on the pitcher's arm slot (the angle of throwing arm to the body at release), the spin on the ball will vary from 12-6, which means the ball will drop and move horizontally as well.

By rule in softball, the arm slot can't vary from pitcher to pitcher.

 

[Suzanne74]

You need to know what kind of spin she throws on her fastball, maybe she already has a lot of top spin (drop). There are two ways to throw the curve, give them a try, maybe she's a natural at one of them. I like my pitchers to experiment and become familiar with spinning the ball even if they don't immediately develop a pitch.

I think that is what her pitching coach was trying to say. That whatever motion or spin she has looks like she could execute a curve ball better than most of her pitchers.

I know a lot about softball and I know the pitches, but I am no PC and was never a pitcher myself. So how to actually throw these other pitches and see what she is doing/learning, or what is best for her is tough for me to know. I have always been able to help her do her fast and change and can see when her mechanics are off. Beyond that, I am a complete newbie.

And again, she is an 09 playing up in 14UB and looking to pitch high school ball. I am not some mom envisioning national teams/showcases and a D1 scholarship. I guess that is why (beyond her not even pitching close to the 50's yet) I was thinking a curve right now was a stretch. My concern is it would throw off her normal fast/change motions and just slow down her increasing velocity and perfecting targets. She is only one month into pitching at 43ft.

 

[El Oso]

I think that is what her pitching coach was trying to say. That whatever motion or spin she has looks like she could execute a curve ball better than most of her pitchers.

I know a lot about softball and I know the pitches, but I am no PC and was never a pitcher myself. So how to actually throw these other pitches and see what she is doing/learning, or what is best for her is tough for me to know. I have always been able to help her do her fast and change and can see when her mechanics are off. Beyond that, I am a complete newbie.

And again, she is an 09 playing up in 14UB and looking to pitch high school ball. I am not some mom envisioning national teams/showcases and a D1 scholarship. I guess that is why (beyond her not even pitching close to the 50's yet) I was thinking a curve right now was a stretch. My concern is it would throw off her normal fast/change motions and just slow down her increasing velocity and perfecting targets. She is only one month into pitching at 43ft.

She needs to learn to spin the ball regardless of the direction of the spin so why not follow the advice of the PC? If the PC thinks she can execute it best, I would go for it, seeing that at that age/stage of a pitcher's life, having success with new stuff is of paramount importance. Keeps them enthused about pitching, builds confidence, and keeps it fun, which sounds like the main goal since playing in college isn't.

Another thing to consider. Since palm up at 9 o'clock is the overall goal, learning the curve ball first might be a really good idea since you need to be palm up to create the 3-9 spin that a curve requires. If I had to do it over again, I would have my DD learn the curve as her first spin pitch because she really struggled (still does) trying to be palm up at 9.



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[ArmWhip]

I think that is what her pitching coach was trying to say. That whatever motion or spin she has looks like she could execute a curve ball better than most of her pitchers.

I know a lot about softball and I know the pitches, but I am no PC and was never a pitcher myself. So how to actually throw these other pitches and see what she is doing/learning, or what is best for her is tough for me to know. I have always been able to help her do her fast and change and can see when her mechanics are off. Beyond that, I am a complete newbie.

And again, she is an 09 playing up in 14UB and looking to pitch high school ball. I am not some mom envisioning national teams/showcases and a D1 scholarship. I guess that is why (beyond her not even pitching close to the 50's yet) I was thinking a curve right now was a stretch. My concern is it would throw off her normal fast/change motions and just slow down her increasing velocity and perfecting targets. She is only one month into pitching at 43ft.

Recognizing the spin on the ball is important, even for her fastball and changeup. Seeing the spin gives her instant feedback about how her mechanical adjustments are affecting the ball. I like to put a half dollar size black spot in each of the 'horseshoes' on the ball with a permanent marker to create a 'spin ball' that they use when working on spins.

 

[Hillhouse]

The baseball curve ball is the same as the softball drop ball.

Disagree. A baseball curve still has a curve to it. A softball drop goes down, period. There isn't a secondary movement the way a baseball pitch goes down and away. Yes, I know... I'm about to hear from everyone who's kid has a "drop curve". But that's not what was said. If you want to compare a baseball curve to a softball "drop curve", go ahead. But a drop is a drop, it doesn't go side to side with the exception of throwing it inside or outside. But again, that's location not movement.

 

[_MIA_]

No offense but how effective will any of these pitches be in 14u if her fastball is only 46?

 

[radness]

Disagree. A baseball curve still has a curve to it. A softball drop goes down, period. There isn't a secondary movement the way a baseball pitch goes down and away. Yes, I know... I'm about to hear from everyone who's kid has a "drop curve". But that's not what was said. If you want to compare a baseball curve to a softball "drop curve", go ahead. But a drop is a drop, it doesn't go side to side with the exception of throwing it inside or outside. But again, that's location not movement.

Agree drop is a straight pitch that moves down.