Crash rule with ball/without ball

[The Man In Blue]

That’s obstruction and your runner should act accordingly. What are you looking for?

 

[EC22]

What should the runner do to draw attention to the 2b in the path?

 

[marriard]

What should the runner do to draw attention to the 2b in the path?

Very visiably slow or dodge. Yell 'look out' Do not initiate contact.

I am not saying every umpire will get it right - they won't- but this is what your runner should do

 

[Strike2]

If 2B is in the way of the runner, and the ball is headed there, the chances of the umpire seeing the obstruction is pretty high. It's when the play is somewhere else is when they are most likely to miss it.

 

[CoachJD]

As with the rules I posted earlier, NFHS they have an out either way (ball or not), and they make it clear that if you don't leave your feet and crash that is malicious. They also have a defined malicious contact rule and penalty which allows you to make the same call if they do something different that is malicious - as it includes a dead ball and an immediate out penalty if done by the offense.

Unless it's changed in the past couple years, the NFHS definition is "Malicious contact is an act that involves excessive force with an opponent."

It appears I have a much different definition of "excessive force" than the umpires here, because there's lots of "if the runner makes any contact she's ejected" talk and that's just 100% wrong imo.

And since I've seen literally hundreds of examples of non-contact obstruction (most often a 1B standing on the inside corner of the bag on a ball hit to the OF) and it's never, ever been called -- not one time -- it seems like those here are basically saying the only way to get an obstruction call is to hope an infielder tackles the runner because 99.9% of the obstruction contact would be "initiated" by the base runner (since the infielder is usually just standing in the way).

No, a runner should not be allowed to just truck a defender because she's in the way, but "excessive force" pretty clearly is not "the base runner is obligated to avoid contact."

 

[marriard]

It appears I have a much different definition of "excessive force" than the umpires here, because there's lots of "if the runner makes any contact she's ejected" talk and that's just 100% wrong imo.

The any cotact quote has never been said. Just realize if a runner is seen intentionally looking for contact or does nothing to avoid contact, the call will very likely not go her way.

The only thing in this thread that has been said is that there is a NFHS rule that specifically stated that if you don't leave your feet and run through a fielder you will be ejected and a similar one in USA Softball.

And since I've seen literally hundreds of examples of non-contact obstruction (most often a 1B standing on the inside corner of the bag on a ball hit to the OF) and it's never, ever been called -- not one time -- it seems like those here are basically saying the only way to get an obstruction call is to hope an infielder tackles the runner because 99.9% of the obstruction contact would be "initiated" by the base runner (since the infielder is usually just standing in the way).

Most coaches miss the call because they are not looking at the umpire. I know I do regularly when I am coaching and I know what I am looking for. Also, most umpires will not signal obstruction unless it needs to be, so just because it wasn't signaled, doesn't mean it wasn't seen. Most commonly you will see an obstruction combined with there being no chance the runner is going to get to the next base without the obstruction or it is not going to change the result of the play, so you won't get a signal. Doesn't mean it wasn't seen.

Also, as I said, not every umpire is good at this call I am afraid. But don't make it worse by doing something stupid because the good ones will call it the right way.

No, a runner should not be allowed to just truck a defender because she's in the way, but "excessive force" pretty clearly is not "the base runner is obligated to avoid contact."

If a runner intentionally seeks out contact, it will go against her. If they have a chance to avoid a collision or contact, they should and if they are smart they should make it obvious that they had to. Just saying.

Note I haven't ejected a player ever in softball because I have never needed to. A couple of coaches have come close, but that has never happened either.

That doesn't mean I am not willing to.