coach telling DD to "roll the wrists"

[CoogansBluff]

A common cause that leads to the wrists rolling over early is when the lead elbow breaks down-and-in too soon, negatively impacting the swing plane. The fix here is to correct the lead arm (some will say elbow), and when you do, the issue with premature wrist rollover goes away.

What is the proper action of the lead elbow (as opposed to down-and-in too soon)? ...

Should the lead elbow follow a should-to-shoulder plane?

 

[nanotech14]

Unless she does the Louisiana half swing how does she not roll her wrists? I might not be visualizing it correctly.

Not until after contact and to some it not until later in their follow through.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

What is the proper action of the lead elbow (as opposed to down-and-in too soon)? ...

Should the lead elbow follow a should-to-shoulder plane?

I believe Mike Epstein refers to the concept as “weathervaning” … the notion being that the lead elbow works up higher for a low pitch than for a high pitch.

This is fairly easy for you to replicate on your end.

Perform some dry swings with the lead elbow working up, versus being collapsed down-and-in towards your front-side. You should be able to observe how having the lead elbow collapsed down-and-in results in having your top-hand rollover earlier in the swing. Likewise, you should be able to observe how having your lead elbow work up higher delays the observed rollover until later.

Those that have a sense of turning the barrel head down to/behind the ball (not the hands, but the barrel head), or who think in terms of swinging the barrel head down (again, the barrel head, not the hands), will generally have more of a sense that wrist rollover should be treated as a ‘result’ and should not be a forced or restricted action.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks, FFS. Good read.

It seems that this failure of the lead elbow to work up also may be a cause or symptom of a V swing, no? ... This is about to be a project for my daughter, and I hope I understand it. She has the kind of swing that leads her bat to finish pointing toward the pitcher's foot instead of the pitcher's head. I think she goes down with the front elbow.

Also, I find very few hitters in 14U and younger who get great extension that is exhibited in this photo (below). Most roll too early, IMO. I could be wrong, but my gut says it has something to do with poor use of the front elbow -

(To the original poster, click on this photo and tell me if your daughter's coach would say Beltran should've rolled the wrists by now.)

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thanks, FFS. Good read.

It seems that this failure of the lead elbow to work up also may be a cause or symptom of a V swing, no? ... This is about to be a project for my daughter, and I hope I understand it. She has the kind of swing that leads her bat to finish pointing toward the pitcher's foot instead of the pitcher's head. I think she goes down with the front elbow.

Also, I find very few hitters in 14U and younger who get great extension that is exhibited in this photo (below). Most roll too early, IMO. I could be wrong, but my gut says it has something to do with poor use of the front elbow -

(To the original poster, click on this photo and tell me if your daughter's coach would say Beltran should've rolled the wrists by now.)

View attachment 4186

Given this description (bold above), and not looking at a video, I'll offer the following recommendation for you to try.

Consider instructing your daughter to turn the barrel head down behind the ball, and not the hands. Give her the cue of working the barrel head down to the ball while keeping the hands up ... with that she'll likely have more of a diagonal barrel and the weathervaning will kick in. Again ... just going off of this one description.

 

[PEPPERS]

Rolling the wrist is to bring the bat back after extension; you want to stay on the ball for as long as possible, think of hitting through 3 balls. Rolling the wrist too early will result in a hitter not staying on the ball (not hitting through all 3 balls)hitting the top of the ball and will result in ground balls a majority of the time. Proper alignment of the hands on the bat will help with extension and rolling the wrist at the proper time.

The young kids I teach a too hand finish and some have found releasing the bat and a 1 hand finish works better for them as they get older, as long as they can do the one hand and not hurt their finish I have no problem with it.

 

[rdbass]

Rolling the wrist is to bring the bat back after extension; you want to stay on the ball for as long as possible, think of hitting through 3 balls. Rolling the wrist too early will result in a hitter not staying on the ball (not hitting through all 3 balls)hitting the top of the ball and will result in ground balls a majority of the time. Proper alignment of the hands on the bat will help with extension and rolling the wrist at the proper time.

The young kids I teach a too hand finish and some have found releasing the bat and a 1 hand finish works better for them as they get older, as long as they can do the one hand and not hurt their finish I have no problem with it.

I must be on more 'ignore list' than I thought?

 

[obbay]

Thank you for the responses! RDB- Great GIF!

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear but he was encouraging an early roll of the wrists into contact. He said it was the way line drive hitters hit the ball. Fortunately he wasn't trying to get her to swing down on the ball to generate backspin!

The wrists should be allowed to rollover naturally … neither forcing rollover, or forcing a palm-up orientation. The solution isn't to address the wrists directly, but to fix the mechanic that is causing the wrists to rollover too early. That is, rollover of the wrists should be treated as a ‘result’, and hence one does not directly treat the issue, but instead treats the issue indirectly by correcting the mechanic that leads to the observed 'result'.

This is what she has been taught-thank you for the validation!
He was making it sound like wrist roll at contact is the way to maximize power.

 

[Mike]

Is pujols playing slowpitch in that gif?

What is the proper action of the lead elbow (as opposed to down-and-in too soon)? ...

Should the lead elbow follow a should-to-shoulder plane?

As Howard Carrier would say....make a good first move....the lead elbow should start forward then up, like going up a ramp.

I believe basically what ffs is saying....the height of the elbow depends on the pitch location... but the ramp analogy has always helped me explain it to kids.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Is pujols playing slowpitch in that gif?



As Howard Carrier would say....make a good first move....the lead elbow should start forward then up, like going up a ramp.

I believe basically what ffs is saying....the height of the elbow depends on the pitch location... but the ramp analogy has always helped me explain it to kids.

This segment from a Whiphit demonstration is bad advice IMO.