Chicken Winging

[Amy in AZ.]

If I was sitting on the bucket for this young lady, I would help her develop a leg drive and show her ways to pick up her speed. That is what she is trying to do. Once she develops arm whip and yes, internal rotation, she is going to be happier with her pitch. She has what I call a shoulder shrug.

I do see this happen once in a while, especially when she has been told to throw harder, throw faster, quicker, etc. I explain to the girl not to start adding anything to the arm circle. I want the arm long and relaxed and the shoulder does nothing but hold the arm on to the body. The elbow doesn't play a roll in release, either.

But once the shoulder is taken out of the equation, the elbow won't be bowing out, either.

Now for her game form. She has to change it. You are taking her to a PC and she does what the PC wants and then does her own thing in the game. That won't work. If she only wants to win some of the time and possibly suffer shoulder problems, when she is old, then I would stop taking her to the PC, because she isn't listening.

 

[JUAN GONZALEZ]

I believe she is throwing an over the top drop ball and she is probably getting a lot of strike outs and ground ball with it.

 

[tomzpc]

I am in no way talking about an upward snap,but the last thing that happens before the release of the ball is on RHP the palm will be facing 3rd then internally rotate toward their body. Maybe I should have said she is internally rotating her hand too soon. My DD struggled with this a couple years. A lot of good discussions on this forum on this subject.

Ahh, I see. This happens to my daughter as well on occasion and I can immediately see the drop in velocity.

 

[starsnuffer]

Most chicken winging pitchers I see have forward lean. If you fix the lean you'll fix the arm. Forward lean is usually caused by two things: attempting to aim the ball and poor pivot foot mechanics. If the kid is digging a trench or wearing out their cleats too fast, they're probably trying to use their pivot foot as an anchor and this is going to cause a lot of issues down the line, including lean and chicken winging.

Have video?

-W

 

[JUAN GONZALEZ]

In my opinion the forward lean is because she shortens her stride because she wants to get her hand over the ball to make it drop.

 

[smallball]

I do see this happen once in a while, especially when she has been told to throw harder, throw faster, quicker, etc. I explain to the girl not to start adding anything to the arm circle. I want the arm long and relaxed and the shoulder does nothing but hold the arm on to the body. The elbow doesn't play a roll in release, either.

^^^
This.

When I was teaching my DD to pitch, I noticed every now and again she wanted to get the shoulder involved to throw harder. And yes, it was usually after I told her to throw harder.

 

[ifubuildit]

Chicken winging as I define it is the arm and elbow coming away from the body during the last quarter of the windmill (Just prior to release). This is not good for any pitcher. It puts a lot of strain on the elbow and shoulder and will eventually lead to bursitis or tendonitis in the elbow or worse shoulder pain.

A previous poster stated that if you fix the lean forwared that it will fix the chicken wing. I wish it was that simple but its not. The best device I ever used to fix this was the Perfect Circle. The best advice I got related to this was from Bill Hillhouse. Bill always tells his students to "Brush the ear" when the arm comes up past the head. This will keep the windmill in the "Slot" for delivery close to to the body.

If your not familiar with the Perfect Circle its a device that goes around the pitchers leg and has a flap on it. The idea being that the pitcher must hit the flap as the hand goes by at the release point. It is by far the best training device I have found for fixing the Chicken Wing. I hope this helps.

Dana Maggs

Excel Hitting and Pitching. (Facebook only)

 

[starsnuffer]

The problem with the thigh cue for fixing chicken winging is that, when the pitcher is bent over, their circle is actually correct when the hand passes the thigh, but because the actual release point is far in front of the thigh when the pitcher leans, the arm circle falls apart. Some pitchers even have a good arm circle but chicken wing AFTER release (which is still hard on the shoulder), especially if they otherwise have good arm whip and practice good IR mechanics.

Try this exercise: Stand up in a good K position with the pivot leg bent and the weight back in a good, strong pitching stance. Now perform a solid arm circle slowly practicing an elbow first downswing with a good IR release. Notice your arm and hand position. Now, lean forward over your stride foot and perform the same arm circle realizing that the release must now be in front of the body. Notice anything about the position of the elbow at release?

-W

 

[LAdad]

I can't find the original IR thread (wasn't someone going to pin that?).

The original description is here: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/1348-internal-rotation.html#post5534
(You want post #4; if you start at the top of the thread you may never make it there...)

Although the "internal rotation" refers to the last part of the pitch (the part just before ball release, I think), if I understand correctly the crucial part of the "IR pitching method" is that when the hand is pointed back toward 2nd base (the "3 o'clock" position), the ball is pointing up or toward 3rd base (for a RHP), and stays pointing toward 3rd as the hand passes the hip/body. This results in the proper arm whip, as opposed to the method where the hand is behind the ball (ball points to home) when the hand passes the hip. The rest of the movement, including the internal rotation, then follows more or less automatically, as long as the hand doesn't go to shoulder of the throwing arm.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Here's IR in action.

As JG said, it looks to me like the girl in the OP is doing something in an effort to put spin on the ball.