Check of count. What should happen?

[The Man In Blue]

Can see it seems you question the integrity of the help...
But so are the teams lol

To not ask just seems like two wrongs.
If two teams have a scorekeeper, which many times both do,
At least there is a refference to help.

But to questionably BE wrong and not inquire to help, seems wrong.

However that is okay its your job perspective guiding you!
Do notice,
Majority of umpires will either ask for help or
HAVE HELP YELLED AT THEM
to amend situation.

* gonna use this opportunity again to say
Use your bat and dont let the umpire decide the outcome for you

I wouldn’t go so far as to say integrity ... but yes.

It isn’t so much that I believe they will cheat, as it is an issue of lending credibility to the practice of asking somebody on the other side of the fence. As you said, there is PLENTY of “help” coming from the other side of the fence. It isn’t a democracy.

Now, I will say it is more of a “read the room” situation than just being a red@$$ like I am presenting.

The reason I take those hardline stances are just in case new umpires may be reading this and develop the notion that umpiring by committee is a good practice. Or for parents who think they can grab a scorebook and have input.

 

[EdLovrich]

I have been involved in enough games where there is an 'official' scorekeeper in the press box who can't keep up with the count on the scoreboard, no way I am going to rely on someone in the dugout who is keeping track of the count, trying to decide if Susie got on by a hit or error, tracking pitch count, helping Jane tie her shoes, figure out who still needs to get into the game, wipe Mary's nose and everything else that goes on in the dugout.

If I am working a game alone (not very often, thankfully) I am sure to give the count much more frequently. IF I have a brain fade and either roll the indicator early or miss a counting a pitch I MIGHT check with both books (provided each team is keeping a book) and if they agree I will use that count, otherwise it is what I have, for better or for worse.

It isn't about job perspective, it is about it being the job, period. I am paid to officiate the game, I do the best I can and hope I am perfect. Most nights I am not perfect. I pity the team that is counting on the umpire (or any other sports official) being perfect to make up for their lack of execution. Mistakes, like errors, happen. The teams have to battle against everything that comes their way. Umpires are a part of the game and our mistakes are part of the game. That doesn't mean we excuse them any more than a groundskeeper has to apologize for a bad hop. We do our best just as the players do. And I will wager our percentage of getting the job done right is pretty darn high.

 

[radness]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say integrity ... but yes.

It isn’t so much that I believe they will cheat, as it is an issue of lending credibility to the practice of asking somebody on the other side of the fence. As you said, there is PLENTY of “help” coming from the other side of the fence. It isn’t a democracy.

Now, I will say it is more of a “read the room” situation than just being a red@$$ like I am presenting.

The reason I take those hardline stances are just in case new umpires may be reading this and develop the notion that umpiring by committee is a good practice. Or for parents who think they can grab a scorebook and have input.

integrity maybe had the wrong slant to it...
Really meaning question the quality/accuracy.

'Take those hard line stances'
& 'read the room'
new there was some perspective in there about it.

 

[The Man In Blue]

integrity maybe had the wrong slant to it...
Really meaning question the quality/accuracy.

'Take those hard line stances'
& 'read the room'
new there was some perspective in there about it.

I don’t think that had the wrong slant … it is definitely valid. I just didn’t want to be that harsh.

I’ve seen too many scorekeepers overstep their boundaries, so I feel it is important to define their place and role.

Quality and accuracy is not only a valid point also, but I think it relates to what I am saying about the appearances it gives … “Hey, guy who is writing things down, talking to the moms around him, yelling at me, holding the tent down, eating nachos, and coordinating what flavor of Gatorade his daughter wants … what’s the count? I’m just umpiring and I wasn’t paying attention.”

 

[marriard]

I am going to try my best to get it right if i can.

So In travel/rec where I don't have an official score keeper, as the plate umpire my count is default. If I have lost track of the count or there is a question about the count, then i am going to check with my partner. If he has different, get together and discuss. See if we can get it right between us.

If we can't then I am going to both scorebooks. If they both agree and it is realistic, then very likely we are going with that. If they disagree we are likely going with whatever we had on the field.

If only one team is keeping the book, well that may to be their advantage. Both teams are meant to be keeping book.

So, going to try to get it right. Not relying on one book but happy to check if we can't agree on the field or questions remain. Final decision always sits with the plate umpire.

Add: i rarely lose count. It is part of my routine so habit. Call pitch, click indicator. When I do it is normally because of action - close foul ball, steal, passed ball, etc. Sometimes after the play you think 'did i count that pitch?'

 

[newnin]

Interesting topic. This just happened to one of our batters twice, in different games but same umpire. What should a batter do if they hear the count, and they think it is wrong? In these two cases, the count was given pretty late. The batter was setup and the pitcher about to start her motion.

 

[EdLovrich]

All the batter can do is TRY to ask for time and hope it is granted. Otherwise, proceed as if she knows the correct count and ask for clarification after the pitch.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Re: giving the count at that point ...

The best I can offer is to discreetly and politely ask the umpire to give the count sooner or wait until the next pitch. Let him know (politely!) that giving the count that late is going to have an effect on the pitcher and the batter (and he is not going to be set and ready for the pitch, but don't add that).

Could he have been a new umpire who hasn't gotten his timing down yet? Still thinks he gives the count for the crowd? (No, you don't.) Saying something the right way may help him improve!

Situation specific, but this is a case where I might even consider saying something to his partner IF the partner is the more experienced umpire. Let him provide it to the other umpire as constructive feedback.

 

[radness]

I’ve seen too many scorekeepers overstep their boundaries, so I feel it is important to define their place and role.

Quality and accuracy is not only a valid point also, but I think it relates to what I am saying about the appearances it gives … “Hey, guy who is writing things down, talking to the moms around him, yelling at me, holding the tent down, eating nachos, and coordinating what flavor of Gatorade his daughter wants … what’s the count? I’m just umpiring and I wasn’t paying attention.”

Completely recognize that happens, definetly understand setting a standard, roles.

'Read the room' think was a good phrase TMIB used previously.
Assessment of the situation must fluctuate every game.
A friend coach of mine charts pitches for his team.
He is a hawk paying attention!
That is not the same as
Happy parent at a picnic, with a pencil doodling the scorebook

 

[The Man In Blue]

In a twist of fate ... at the other umpire forum I frequent ...

A scorekeeper wandered into that forum asking "How can an umpire miss a strike by 6 inches and then get his feelings hurt? He was so soft he felt the need to eject the scorekeeper?" He even posted a video on Youtube.

It did not go well in that forum for that scorekeeper (as evidenced by his added comment on the video). Although, the coach got lots of accolades.