Change up help

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fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
A question came to mind when practicing with DD on her change-up last night. Figured I'd keep this thread rolling and post it here.

I understand that ball spin for the change-up is more so dictated by which "style" the pitcher is using. But, can there be so much spin that you can hear it as it comes into the glove (I was catching). It was darker out and I was picking the ball up late, but I swear I could hear it despite the ball coming in very slow. She wants to practice it again today, so I'm hoping I'll be able to watch the spin better as the pitch comes in. Curious if others DD throws a change-up with a lot of spin.
Don't quote me on this, but i have heard that anything over 55 ish MPH created a whoosh sound. I have never heard that spin would do that without the speed. Just do a standing dry spin in your own hand and listen if you hear anything. That combined with 40+ mph may induce some sound, but change ups in my experience dont have that many revs, so i wouldn't think so. But i also dont know the conditions you were catching in.
 
Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
Don't quote me on this, but i have heard that anything over 55 ish MPH created a whoosh sound. I have never heard that spin would do that without the speed. Just do a standing dry spin in your own hand and listen if you hear anything. That combined with 40+ mph may induce some sound, but change ups in my experience dont have that many revs, so i wouldn't think so. But i also dont know the conditions you were catching in.

It was relatively calm out. DD hasn’t thrown 50mph a day in her life but I have heard the ball come in when she’s got good spin on it. She coasts around 43-45. But I don’t hear it until it’s nearly in the glove. This was similar but didn’t snap the glove like her “fastball”. Although they were faster than earlier in the evening, so maybe she changed something and that’s all it was.
 
Oct 10, 2018
305
63
Our DD would snap through her change up too for the longest time. Finally DH told DD "Let them hit it" throw something they can hit, a nice big juicy grapefruit. She immediately took enough pace off the ball that a beautiful change up appeared. Good mechanics and sells it but stopped snapping. Not sure how or why that phrase worked for her but it did.
 
Aug 12, 2014
112
28
Buffalo, NY
A question came to mind when practicing with DD on her change-up last night. Figured I'd keep this thread rolling and post it here.

I understand that ball spin for the change-up is more so dictated by which "style" the pitcher is using. But, can there be so much spin that you can hear it as it comes into the glove (I was catching). It was darker out and I was picking the ball up late, but I swear I could hear it despite the ball coming in very slow. She wants to practice it again today, so I'm hoping I'll be able to watch the spin better as the pitch comes in. Curious if others DD throws a change-up with a lot of spin.

A lot of my kids throw the same one with bullet spin titled down. I encourage a faster spin rate usually by cueing them to relax the thumb or feel the fingers roll up the side of the ball.

I'm not talking speed. I'm just talking spin rate.
 
Apr 17, 2019
194
28
Not sure if this has been said.
Palm the ball then brush the thumb on the thigh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I haven’t replied to this for a bit but her pc figured this out for her and it seemed to work. The thought of brushing the back of her hand on her thigh

Lots of good tips in this thread. A couple thoughts on the change up:
1. Just about everything you do to get speed off the ball is counter to good mechanics....a big key is to do it so quickly that it is not noticeable
2. To get speed off a ball requires misdirecting energy. That can come in many forms: a) early IR and early Pronation. the idea here is to get the ball to lead the elbow in a pushing action vs the elbow leading the ball in a whipping action; b) getting the fingers out from behind the ball at time of release...it's hard to put energy into the ball when the fingers are on the outside of the ball; c) misdirect the hand/arm such that it crosses the body and finishes somewhere between the belt and shoulder...this varies for every pitcher. IOW, don't direct energy straight at the catcher; d) accelerate the arm from about 8 o'clock until the hand has totally crossed over to the belt/shoulder....deceleration transfers energy...acceleration just maintains energy; e) the last thing on the ball is the fingers.....reduce the energy the fingers put into the ball by paralyzing them; f) pull the hand upward just prior to and into release....pull the energy up/out of the ball.
There are a zillion grips for a change up.....I'd start with the basic fastball/dropball grip.
There are several zillion cues for a change up. One I like a lot is "tea up and across and show the palm". The tea is in reference to how people in England drink tea....just replicate that action as the hand is nearing the release zone.

Rick thanks for replying, c is the release her coach is teaching her, but her problem has been still having the fingers behind the ball.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
Is the Circle Change just a grip? One of the guru's is teaching a pitch called a circle change the way my daughter learned it but she doesn't us the grip. I always see circle change but always thought it was just a grip.
 
Nov 8, 2018
774
63
I haven’t replied to this for a bit but her pc figured this out for her and it seemed to work. The thought of brushing the back of her hand on her thigh



Rick thanks for replying, c is the release her coach is teaching her, but her problem has been still having the fingers behind the ball.

My dd does this now. Works well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Nov 8, 2018
774
63
Is the Circle Change just a grip? One of the guru's is teaching a pitch called a circle change the way my daughter learned it but she doesn't us the grip. I always see circle change but always thought it was just a grip.

Yeah it’s a grip and a pitch. Some throw circle change, circle curve, circle rise. It’s a grip. But can be thrown many ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jan 6, 2018
221
43
Is the Circle Change just a grip? One of the guru's is teaching a pitch called a circle change the way my daughter learned it but she doesn't us the grip. I always see circle change but always thought it was just a grip.
1621118528686.png

Circle grip can reduce speed, but if she's got big hands and a strong middle finger she still will have too much pace if she whips. She has to pronate early and as I say "throw the circle" to the catcher...No fingers behind the ball = no speed. I transitioned my DD away from this grip because it's easy to pick and like Rick said - it's not really what makes the change happen - it's more about spinning over the ball early and finding the right release angle for her arm speed. If you take the whip out, the speed is gone no matter how you hold it. The best part about throwing it right is the faster they try to move their arm, the more deceptive it is because the spin it faster and it drops better and without the whip they can't throw it too fast. Takes a lot of practice though! Once she has the mechanic down then move the grip so the ball comes out of the hand with the same rotation as the fast ball.
 
Feb 3, 2010
5,752
113
Pac NW
The horseshoe/circle/cup-o-water/Pauly change are all very similar. They're all pretty much various cues or feels to get the same result: a spiral spin that is significantly slower and easily spotted. The goal is to IR/pronate early to get the fingertips ripping up the outside of the ball. Use whatever cue it takes to achieve spiral spin. Often times, turning the hand from palm up to horseshoe/circle/cup down around 9 o'clock is a very helpful cue.

The trick to control is brush. Even if the only part of the arm brushing is the upper forearm (see below pic.)

Brush targets for fast, drop and change:
DDAFB3F3-88C1-4AFC-9725-80FADB99C29F.jpeg

Alternative brush targets to experiment with:
1621125710027.png

Throw the horseshoe/circle/cup/dot at the target. Brush at least the upper forearm for control, but aim to brush whatever part of the forearm or hand it takes to achieve spiral spin:
D512703E-DE08-44CA-AA39-D9532297AFC2.jpeg
 

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