Can the assistant coach address the Ump?

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GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
I have never been ejected and only once restricted to the dugout ... But many years ago while coaching 1st base as an AC I should have been ejected while arguing an obstruction non-call ... I was right but going about it the wrong way ... The HC came over to calm me down just as the Umpire finally had heard enough ... He spun around to point at me and give me my well deserved ejection just as the HC stepped in between us ... He got slapped with the ejection but never spoke a word.
 
Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
Every umpires dream.......getting a 4 way with the manager, 1b coach and 3b coach.

HC was not allowed to talk to discuss with UMP in a game, long story. So another AC or me had the privilege.

Happened to be me when controversy exploded. There was all 3 of them yelling at TD. I had a pretty good idea what it was about, approached home to get involved in conversation. Both ACs turned on me aggressive enough where I needed to retreat a little bit.

I told them I would listen and discuss this as much as they want but I want to talk to the HC for a second. Barge into to HC's conversation with TD. To opposing coach I said that I am here representing my Team, pick a person to represent your Team and get everyone else into dugout. He did.

Yelling stopped.

If you are an UMP cut that BS of its knees. Coach, who we all liked, lost rulings that were impossible to lose, I have to give him credit for that. As an AC I was an observer 99% of the time with interactions with UMP.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
We are discussing the reversal of a decision due to misapplication of the rules not appeals, as stated above, so the case involving the C IS MOOT. Also, the NFHS rule book states THE coach not A Coach, so your interpretation of the rule meaning any coach would be in error.
^^^This^^^ THE COACH is singular and I have interpreted it as the head coach.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
We are discussing the reversal of a decision due to misapplication of the rules not appeals, as stated above, so the case involving the C IS MOOT. Also, the NFHS rule book states THE coach not A Coach, so your interpretation of the rule meaning any coach would be in error.

Doesn't say head coach. If they mean head coach, they should say head coach.

Since I am 100% certain I have a better grasp of the English language than literally every umpire I've ever had work our games (and probably every single one I've ever interacted with), I'm gonna strongly disagree with you on this one. "The coach" in no way whatsoever implies or suggests head coach. If they mean head coach, they should write that.

What this actually means, in English: "The coach" refers to "the coach who is questioning the call." This isn't really up for debate. It does not in any way mean "the head coach." Nothing in the context of the rule suggests that, but everything in the context of the language of the rule suggests "the coach" refers to any coach.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
My partner did this once. I corrected him at the meeting. Probably shouldn't have thrown him under the bus but, he was wrong.

Maybe make sure you are correct before throwing somebody under the bus ... lest you should trip and be the one going under.

NFHS Softball
RULE 1 Players, Field, and Equipment
SECTION 1 Position of Players

Article 2 ... The captain and the head coach represent the team in communications with umpires.

And the "head coach" is not whoever's name is on a piece of paper somewhere. The head coach is the person who attended the plate meeting. So don't show up like a buffoon in the third inning and then wander onto the field to give me your opinion. It has never turned out well for those guys.

RULE 2 Playing Terms and Definitions
SECTION 10 Conferences
ART. 2 . . . A pregame conference is a meeting involving the umpires, both head coaches and team captains (if available) near home plate. The meeting should begin approximately five minutes prior to the game. The purpose of the pregame conference is to exchange and check each team’s lineup cards and to discuss ground rules. Umpires also shall ask the head coaches of the two opposing teams if their players are legally and properly equipped. In addition, the expectation of good sporting behavior is shared with both teams and representatives (4-1-3a). Both teams shall remain in their dugout (bench) or bullpen area until this meeting has concluded.
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
93
MI
@CoachJD

You said earlier :

My NFHS rules book is a few years old, but I don't think this has changed:

If there is a reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made

I think I have identified where you are trying to quote this passage from; In the 2022 NFHS rule book 10.2.3i Note states the following:

"If there is a question about a rule that was possibly misapplied the team's coach or captain shall inform the umpire at the time of the play and before a pitch to the next batter....."

This is in regards to protests and is limited to state associations that permit protests.

Elsewhere in the same rule, 10.2.3i Exception "Protests resulting from the last play of the game....the plate umpire shall inform the coach of the opposing team and the official scorekeeper.

If you could provide the rule your earlier quote was from, if other than 10.2.3, then we can try to interpret what the rules committee meant by "the coach' in your quote, but it is clear from 10.2.3 that they are referring to the primary (i.e. head) coach of a team when they state "the coach"

While NFHS does specify head coach in certain other areas of the rule book, I agree that the terminology of "the coach" can be confusing/open to interpretation, but in the case of 10.2.3 it is clear that the umpire would not discuss a protest or misapplication of the rules with anyone other than the head coach or captain. This, in combination with clarifications from various state associations (including Michigan and Wisconsin, where I umpire), is spelled out specifically that the head coach is the only bench personnel that may question an umpire's ruling.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
If the team is seeking a reversal of a call on the field based on a rules application (so, not an appeal, which can, depending on the appeal type, live or dead, be made by a fielder or any coach), then it depends...

USSSA says: "If there is a reasonable doubt about some decision being in conflict with the rules, the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made." In various places in their rules, USSSA uses the words "head coach" or "a coach" or "the coach" and even "the Coach". Here they use "the coach", which I suppose is up for interpretation. At other places where they use "the coach" or "the Coach" it's clear they mean the head coach (e.g. ejection for illegal bat, or ejection for unreported substitute).

USA says: ".Under no circumstances shall any player or person, other than the manager, acting manager or captain of either team, have the right to protest any decision and seek its reversal on a claim that it is in conflict with these rules." In USA, manager means head coach (the words "head coach" aren't in the rule book).

NFHS: i don't have the rulebook, but various state associations explicitly call out that only the head coach may discuss calls with the umpire. e.g. https://www.nchsaa.org/sportsmanship-respect-game#baseballsoftball

It is pretty evident, despite the sloppy writing, the "the coach" is always reference to the head coach in the USSSA rulebook. I don't think there is much room for interpretation.

Fun fact: the term "head coach" appears in the USSSA rulebook 9 times. 8 of those are in reference to ejecting the head coach. USSSA hates head coaches.

the-more-you-know.gif
 

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