Bullet spin, spin/ball release.

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Apr 21, 2020
26
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Thanks everyone for your advice.
We have always been IR. And she does pitch most of her balls 4 seem. So we will continue with that. Definitely gonna work with the suggestions we received! We’ll check in a few weeks to let you know her progression. I know the saying fix one thing 2 things go bad lol. Gotta love those pitchers!


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May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
Operative word is "threw" a corkscrew 'fastball'. I don't know of many pitchers above 16 yrs old that throw a "FB" period. Especially one that is easy for the hitter to see it's rotation. Bullet spin doesn't move, it stays flat. I simply cannot fathom why anyone of any age would want to throw a pitch that doesn't move. As I've said before, do you realize how many HR's I've given up on balls that didn't move? Where I'd go back into the dugout and say "It's just not moving today, this could be a LONG game". I cannot fathom doing that on purpose.

Will bullet spin work against bad teams? Yes. Will bullet spin work against "ok" teams? Maybe. Against good teams? nope. And if movement pitches work against good teams AND the 'ok' teams, then why not fix it now to prepare for the best competition you will eventually see?

Bill

In a perfect world I agree with you on this, however in the real world things seem to be different. The Amanda S video is the first case. I assume that she is throwing her fastball, not a rise and not a bulletspin pitch. In the video of Jennie Finch where she beaks the glass protecting a scientific instrument she is throwing bulletspin. There is a video of Ueno in the lab, she is also throwing bulletspin. There is a video of Monica Abbot in a demo where she also throwing bulletspin. I assume that in all these cases these pitchers were throwing their fastballs, not a bad rise or a deliberate bulletspin pitch. We also know that Cat O and Rachel Garcia throw bulletspin. Frankly I am surprised at this because I always thought that having your hand/fingers directly behind the ball at release was the best way to impart energy/velocity to the pitch. But if these high level pitchers throw bulletspin fastballs, maybe not.

One thing that we don't know about any of these pitchers is the velocity of each of their pitches. If pitcher's bulletspin fast ball is significantly faster than her drop or rise does that make it a useful pitch?
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
100% agree with Bill.(y)

I would like some clarification on this from you and Bill. When you say 4 seam are you talking about the grip or the rotation on the ball. For me grip #3 above is a 4 seam grip, is this the grip you use on a riseball? I'm thinking that with a rise this grip won't give you 4 seam rotation.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Both. Grip the ball so 4 seams are always working into the spin axis. You want as much air flow disruption (pressure) as possible to move the ball away from the disruption.

With drop, 4 seams moving forward on top and backwards underneath the ball drops because the bottom is the easier route (less pressure). Visa-versa on with rise.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Next thing you know we're gonna hear "only girls throw with bullet spin"...…. :rolleyes:

In a perfect world I agree with you on this, however in the real world things seem to be different. The Amanda S video is the first case. I assume that she is throwing her fastball, not a rise and not a bulletspin pitch. In the video of Jennie Finch where she beaks the glass protecting a scientific instrument she is throwing bulletspin. There is a video of Ueno in the lab, she is also throwing bulletspin. There is a video of Monica Abbot in a demo where she also throwing bulletspin. I assume that in all these cases these pitchers were throwing their fastballs, not a bad rise or a deliberate bulletspin pitch. We also know that Cat O and Rachel Garcia throw bulletspin. Frankly I am surprised at this because I always thought that having your hand/fingers directly behind the ball at release was the best way to impart energy/velocity to the pitch. But if these high level pitchers throw bulletspin fastballs, maybe not.

One thing that we don't know about any of these pitchers is the velocity of each of their pitches. If pitcher's bulletspin fast ball is significantly faster than her drop or rise does that make it a useful pitch?
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
Both. Grip the ball so 4 seams are always working into the spin axis. You want as much air flow disruption (pressure) as possible to move the ball away from the disruption.

With drop, 4 seams moving forward on top and backwards underneath the ball drops because the bottom is the easier route (less pressure). Visa-versa on with rise.
I am 100% sure it is my DD not doing something correct, but she has (what seems to me) more downward movement on a 2 seam drop. Granted she doesn't throw a perfect 12-6 and it gets some sideways movement as well. Am i seeing things? I guess i had assumed that the 4 seam gave an evenly distributed disruption vs the 2 seam which has more of a wobble aspect to it. Even when i try to throw an overhand curve i have more movement throwing in a 2 seam orientation. Thanks in advance for the comment. Maybe there is another thread out there for this question.
 
Jul 14, 2008
1,800
63
Fan, even a smooth ball will theoretically move toward the direction that is spinning away from the resistance.

On a drop, the bottom of the ball is spinning backwards and helping the air move faster over the bottom surface.

The top of the ball is spinning forward into the wind and disrupting the air flow. So the air is flowing faster on the bottom, and the ball moves toward faster (path of least resistance) air flow. The seams serve to increase the air speed on the bottom of the ball, and further disrupt the air speed on top the ball, for drop of course. So while a smooth ball will still drop, a seamed ball drops more.

I guess my point here is ANYTHING spinning forward will drop, no matter how many seams are used, as long as it spins forward. It’s Just the more (and higher) seams used for disruption the better the movement as explained above.

If she’s holding the over the top of the horseshoe with a 2 seam grip, and throws with it forward spin, but with a a little side spin coupled with forward spin, then the 2 seams might turn into a form of 3 seams.

I am 100% sure it is my DD not doing something correct, but she has (what seems to me) more downward movement on a 2 seam drop. Granted she doesn't throw a perfect 12-6 and it gets some sideways movement as well. Am i seeing things? I guess i had assumed that the 4 seam gave an evenly distributed disruption vs the 2 seam which has more of a wobble aspect to it. Even when i try to throw an overhand curve i have more movement throwing in a 2 seam orientation. Thanks in advance for the comment. Maybe there is another thread out there for this question.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
A 2-seam will tend to have movement to the sides

Maybe. But side to side movement is much easier for hitters to square up than up/down movement is. As Boardmember said, more seams typically means more movement.

Another point, and this is more true of the older ages who start to actually learn the art of hitting and the differences between a good and great hitter: a 2 seam pitch, no matter what it pitch, is much easier for the hitter to identify out of the pitcher's hand. Anything with 2 seams is a much looser, sloppier rotation than 4 seams. Again, talking about good hitters here, if a hitter doesn't have the pitcher "picked" in some way, the next thing they look for when batting is the ball rotation out of the hand. 2 seams is much easier to pick up than 4. For me, the little side movement gained isn't worth the loss of any of the dropping action I'd want or spin identification from the hitter.

I do realize this post is talking about an 11 year old and I'm talking about something that happens later in her pitching career. But I wouldn't understand why someone would choose to do something that only works when the pitcher is young vs. doing something that works when the pitcher is both young and older.
 

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